How about the dmg output/dmg reduction ratio tab? Can someone provide some data for comparisson (zodiac builds) - WW with COE/Band/strongmars VS. WW5/CC/2/COE. And btw how much CDR is suitable for CC variant? Does it shear amount replace boon passive?
THX a lot in forward wise ones!
BTW.: Did GR122(1869para) 520 EU NS leaderborad:)
For the required 2 APS to apply Rend twice, in WOTB with 1 attack speed roll, I have 1.94 aps. Does the extra attack speed from Bul Kathos weapon set, even though it’s not reflect in my character sheet, give me over 2 APS so I can get 2 Rend’s stacked?
I guess it’s the old “you need high paragon for it to work” kinda thing. I tried this and although the damage ramped up nicely, it was very squishy. So I guess you can add to your guide a note that low paragons should def stick to BoM, in either IB and BK variant
You do not need 2 APS to apply rend twice. You need 2 ticks of WW and/or Dust Devils, which means that you will always have enough attack speed to apply WW twice, even with a slow 2-hander. You never need to worry about attack speed with this build.
Here’s my story after 70 rifts (when i logged after 150% Lament):
*120 like 5 minutes
(i read guide exactly and noticed i dont need any as, so i drop old stuff)
*125 - in 1st try
*20 keys to 130! (and this is my whole in game personal best, i dont have meta char so no high clears groups) and i smasched Rat
*50 keys, one decent rift, Perendi was no issue, 131 clear 14:100:
Im 4,2k paragon, so nothing special, i used older gear with ~420 Str augments, I like BK swords with INTO THE Fray! This is awesome in density.
I feel strong. Thanks Free, for all your work@ this forum, U made my Bubarian buffed, i never posting here but im reading all, props for u Free.
My builid was C2/BK Swords, last skill was Demoralize (i dont feel good with Rage Flip yet). Im casual Non-Season player and this builid is just strong.
Gear was:
hhttps://www.d3planner.com/382576268
If u got any advices where to look for upgrades now this will help me a lot. Ty builid ++
/e question: - i got ancient shoulders str / res / 8cdr/ 11 rend and same normal shoulders but 15% rend
Is 15% Rend from shoulder and armor = 30? If so ill look for new ancient maby
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Strongarms is 30% dibs, which means (assuming 65% taeguk, 30% 2 rend rolls and 10% battle rage) that it adds 14% damage
Crimson’s with diamond in helm, cdr in zodiac (worn), weapons, shoulder, gloves and rcr in zodiac gives approximately 63% cdr (dmg) and 33% rcr (dr)
Let’s say that CoE is x1.5 damage (200% for 4 sec, every 16 sec=50% average). With good play (grouping in other cycles, dps in physical) it is more than that.
Every potential build shares wastes damage bonuses, 50% wastes dr, lamentation x2.5, zodiac, gems. In summary:
| Build | Additional damage multiplier | Additional damage reduction % |
|---|---|---|
| W6, CoE, Strongarms, Mortick, BoM | x1.71 | 90% |
| W6, CoE, MoC, Mortick, BoM | x1.875 | 92.5% |
| W6, CoE, Strongarms, MoC, BoM | x2.13 | 85% |
| W5CC2, Mortick, BoM | x1.63 | 93.3% |
| W5CC2, Strongarms, BoM | x1.85 | 86.6% |
| W5CC2, CoE, Mortick | x2.44 | 66.5% |
However this table doesn’t take into account factors such as strongarms not affecting guardian, added utility by CC due to high cdr and ability to slot IP etc. CC/CoE, even with IP, is really squishy for low-mid paragon and BoM is needed.
When it comes to weapons:
Option 1: BK. Solves Fury problems, nice speed, Blood funnel for good healing
Option 2: IB. Slower, needs wind shear rune, needs a LpH roll somewhere which costs damage (-5% DPS if you replace strength in a weapon and you have 25k mainsat) but x1.3 damage, added armor
Option 3: Ambo + Doombringer (x1.14 damage if it’s your third physical roll, x1.16 if second due to difficulty with rolling FoT) or Sunkeeper +30% elite dmg. Cube Furnace for even more elite damage. A very good option but whether AS is needed for 2 APS (2 applications of rend/sec) should be conclusively tested. Losing rolls for AS costs dps.
All three can be combined with whichever combination from the table. I don’t know which one is the best of course.
Passives: you should test yourself if you can drop Boon or not. Just remember that, with the exception of ruthless, all dps passives are dibs: brawler for example doesn’t add 20% dmg but 9.7% if no strongarms or 8.5% if strongarms.
Hope that helps
2 Likes
I tested it. You only need 1.0 APS to keep up 2 stacks of Rend when applying via WW, because DDs apply Rend as well, within 9 yards of your character.
Info here: Waste set bonus - #26 by Rage-13139
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This means that the two sets are not at all the best options by default. For example, doombringer setup is half IB + 50% elite damage furnace + weapon’s master passive instead of wind shear (ambo main hand) so you get to keep blood funnell
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I would certainly expect Ambo + DB and IB to be the major contenders. IB gives you extra armor, which can be pretty helpful, and will also kill trash a little faster, which adds more bloodbath procs. It’ll be close.
BK is easy to play, but I’d be shocked if it produced the highest clears.
That’s already in there under the gear rolls.
And the BoM option has certain perks, especially if you have Into the Fray. You stomp into an Oculus, and ItF’s damage boost+the bubble is juicy.
You’re welcome! It wasn’t a solo effort, but I’m glad you’re having fun and feeling strong! That was the whole point of the buffs!
Yes. Getting Rend rolls on chest and shoulders will be great, but low-Paragon players will want to hold off on the chest for a while.
Alex, thanks for taking the time to work this out. I’ve been meaning to do this for a while, but I haven’t had much time to even log into the game lately. This is a huge help and I’m going to incorporate it into the guide. Here are my take-aways from this.
-
Strongarms aren’t worth it. Yes, you can proc them with Spear or Stomp, but their DPS boost can generally be surpassed in other ways.
-
For low-Paragon, early-Season pushes, the second option–Core Zodiac with Band of Might–is the toughest and likely best option–a fantastic mix of DPS and DR.
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For late-Season/high-Paragon pushes, the Crimson’s variant with COE and either IB or Ambo’s + Sunkeeper/Doombringer is going to be the best spec.
Rage, I’m also going to incorporate this info. Thanks again for taking the time to test!
As would I, but the BK set is definitely close, and far less of a hassle to play.
One thing no one is talking about is what happens when you die. With either variant and the BK weapons, you can get back into the fight quickly due to the Fury generation. With the IB weapons, it’s much harder to get spinning again, and much more dangerous if you can’t immediately pop Wrath.
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Allright! I know i want +%Rend on shoulders and armor. Point it:
Whats better? :
- Ancient shoulder 600 + 600 str / 125 res / 8 cdr / 11 rend
or
- Normal shoulder 450 str / 100 res / 8 cdr / 15 Rend?
thats a question!
say you have 10000 str, an extra 150 str would give you 1.5% more dps. say you have 26% rend, an extra 4% would give you 1.3/1.26 = 3.17% more dps. So, take the 15 rend shoulders.
Has anybody worked out the damage breakdown between rend and ww for speed runs? It feels like rend is just overwhelming the ww dmg, to the point that we just need ww to keep rend proc’d constantly, but maybe on lower gr or speed 75s we’ll still benefit from ww dmg.
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thanks boy yyy y y y y
How much strength actually corresponds to 17% more damage (1 GR tier)?
It depends on how much strength you’ve already got, bro!
(Just take your current STR and multiply by .17 , that’s how much more you need to play 1 GR higher with the same effort.)
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Friends, I need help! I just got a Primal Ancient BK’s Warrior Blood! Wonderful! Except it rolled… not well. Str, Vit, Life on Hit, Max Fury, and… Fear on Hit. 
I know FoH is really bad for higher stuff but I’m not that good or geared yet so I’m sad but not concerned about that yet. Is LoH or Vit a better survivability stat? I have ~650k HP with no ancient items yet, only 8k LPH and 7k LPS. I do find myself getting one shot even through BoM and Mortick’s, so I imagine the Vit is better?
What should I roll off, and should I be aiming for CDR or 10% damage? I Have my CCT stuff ready to go as soon as I find a good Zodiac’s to wear so I can put RoRG in my cube slot.
If you use BK swords, LoH is less useful because you’re likely to use Blood Funnel rune on Whirlwind. Also, BK swords are better for speed-content, so the fear shouldn’t be an issue. It might be a little bit of a pain if it’s your best weapon and you’re using it to push, but until then it won’t really bother you.
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Ya I’m not really struggling to stay alive if there are a bunch of targets unless something literally 1 shots me. I think I have to keep the vit. Is CDR or %Damage better? Assuming I use CCT pieces, 10% CDR is a straight upgrade right? Does the diminishing returns on it make that not the case?
You want the cdr with CC set pieces, on both weapons, if possible…
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Quick question: do you really want to roll CDR on your weapons for the Core BoM build? Free recommends 27.5% CDR, which you get from Paragon, Diamond in helm, and one 8% roll on gear, and it’s likely most players have two CDR rolls already between shoulders, Flavor of Time, and Zodiac ring if equipped. Looking at leaderboards it does appear most people roll CDR, but they seem to using Ignore Pain instead of Rage Flip or War Cry.
I was already curious, but then I rolled an ancient BK sword with 10% damage, lpfs, and a mediocre damage range range. It would be a ~11% damage increase to rend damage from that weapon were I to roll the damage range to max, so presumably at least a 5.5% increase overall (depending on whether bloodbath procs solely use mainhand damage.) I suppose if I instead rolled the lfps to CDR I would have the flexibility to use the weapon in either a CC setup or IP setup, even if it’s not terribly useful for the standard build.
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