I am an electrical engineer. Str is a seperate damage multiplier. You increase str by 10% you do 10% more damage as simple as that.
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Umm… In Fire EQ, he uses COE, not Band of Might. That means he relies on the MOTE 4 bonus + Parthans, and that’s it. On a GG map, it’s easy to survive. On a mediocre or bad map, you’ll get that kind of ping-pong.
With the Pro-Slam build, he uses Band of Might. That’s the difference you’re seeing.
As for the rest, I think there’s some leeway in the discussion. It’s true what Pro said earlier: This build has a very specific play style, and if it’s not done right, the build doesn’t shine. In that way, it’s a lot like WW or R6 HOTA. But there’s also a lot of truth to what Arch is saying–the build is weaker than other major builds, and that boils down to the bracer cap.
I’m not convinced the build can do 130. I’m 100% willing to be wrong if someone can get that kind of clear, but I also feel 100% certain the build can do 125-129+.
Main stat is a separate damage multiplier that kicks in before all the other multipliers, you’re calculating everything wrong if you’re multiplying by strength at the final number.
Your final damage number takes into account not just main stat but skill multipliers and set bonuses, which is why increasing main stat by 50% is not a direct 50% final damage increase.
This is why increasing strength by 20% does not necessarily guarantee you’ll increase your GR by 1 (17%).
You are incredibly confused about this game and it shows.
This is why Wizards can clear 150s at paragon 2000 with basically no Intelligence.
Main stat is one part of a long equation. It’s one of many multipliers.
I am sorry Arch, but this will be my last comment on the strength topic, I think you are confused. It doesn’t matter when the multiplier is added in the beginning or the end the associative proper of multiplication always applies.
100 x 5 x 1.5 x 1.3 x 6 = 6 x 1.3 x 1.5 x 5 x 100
Take any number in the above equation and increase it by 10%, the end result will be 10% larger.
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I didn’t look at the gear, I was just looking at his health move around and figured that is why he runs with so much vit.
If you don’t think the build can do 130 I am ok with that.
Just looking how easy the 120 clear was promising to me. Zero issue. Not close to beginning to fish. Maybe around 124-125 he would start fishing. I think there is easy 4-6 GRs that can be achieved fishing for the correct rift that would put him in the 128-130 range from my perspective.
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Ok and you think that Seismic Slam, at Paragon 9,800 needs to squeeze even more main stat into the build via more augments in order to be competitive with other builds? Is that your argument? Get 60,000 Strength and then you can play SS?
Because that’s a lousy point to make in favor or the build: “get more main stat, p9000 isn’t enough”.
The build is behind other Barb builds, full stop.
Adding 10% damage via main stat won’t fix the problems I’m describing.
Your posts actually make the argument that the build is garbage. Because no build should need nearly paragon 10,000 to be decent.
I never said SS would be a top build. My guess was, if someone such as yourself would push the build they might be able to clear 130.
Only other thing I said is for me it is stronger than IK HotA by 4-6 GRs.
I also don’t think Storms clear at 2.2k paragon clearing 121 is garbage. Lots of people play this game and he is currently 26 all time on the US server.
Not sure why your taking offense to my comments, I am not trying to offend you at all. You did a direct comparison to 2 builds and I said one could be marginally better.
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You’re spreading misinformation about the content I posted. Claiming 20% AD missing from shoulders? Did you even bother to verify your claims at all?
And then suggesting that the solution is to add more main stat? Come on. The top clears in the planet for every single leaderboard are not the top paragons, on any class, on any patch, on any meta.
Paragon is not the sole determinant of damage output so to suggest that the fix for SS is a few more augments on a 9,800 character is ridiculous.
If SS is as great as you claim it could pull really great leads on 130 with Lacuni Thrall. It can’t. You can immediately see where a build stands as soon as it hits the best trash in the game.
Grinding for years to squeeze out more main stat is not the answer, to bring up main stat into a conversation about pushing, when there’s already a lot of main stat (see what other builds do at p10k) is dumb.
I looked at the video I read the stats wrong, I admitted I was wrong, what more do you want?
As for the paragon, I simply stated that you could have approximately 10% more damage from augments + some additional damage if you take some paragon out of vit and put it to str (1.5 million life is not a requirement).
I get your not thrilled with the build and you think it is inferior to other builds. I am ok with that. Saying that SS can’t hit 130 or may only on a perfect rift, I am ok with that as well.
When you’re seriously talking about adding more mainstat to a character that has 48,000 of it and pretend 10% extra damage is worth pointing out, you’ve lost the larger point of my posts and that is even with crazy amounts of Paragon the build STILL is not up to par.
You can min/max all you want, I could also have double trifecta stat primal weapons and the problem would persist.
The problem is not main stat min maxing, it’s the bracer cap.
It seems like people here are looking for every possible reason to blame other factors instead of acknowledging that the build has severe limitations. 
I just saw your discussion because of the time difference. Due to the limited level of English, I hope that the following will not cause misunderstanding.
First of all, thank you for your testing . From your tests, I can see that you are very careful to test and compare fairly, a very good character.Thank you again.
Second, I think Felix, PRO, from beginning to end, what they said is they don’t know what the upper limit of this BD is，or they can’t know the upper limit exactly. Rather than saying that this BD is stronger than other BDs. We play this BD because of love, not because it is the strongest. It’s like we choose barbarians because we love this race, not because it is the strongest race.
Third, I think we should respect everyone. We can have different opinions, but we can communicate and discuss in a more peaceful way. We are a family, aren’t we?
Fourth, many of your views, including the understanding of the race of barbarians, we all agree with both hands, which is why you can rank at the top of the ladder. Obviously you are a great player.
Fifth, I also understand Felix very well. I used to be an engineer. So I understand why he is having fun playing this game. Going to research, to explore, to experiment, to find various combinations, to make yourself stronger step by step, this process is full of fun. I believe he is a kind and interesting person.
So,Let’s be friends, could we?
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To add to Felix’s damage calculation, below you can find the reference regarding damage:
Sheet DPS = Base Stat Factor *Base Damage Factor * Crit Factor * Damage Inc. by Skills Factor * Speed Factor.
Actual DPS = Sheet DPS * Skill Weapon Damage Factor (*Damage to Elites Factor)
(To add to this equation ×trapped×no escape×Zei×set 6p×2 EW)
So increasing Dibs 10% does not equate a 10% increase in damage. That is true (as they are collated in one category only). However, increasing STR 10% does equate to 10% damage increase as mainstar itself is a multiplier.
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The problem is people have been talking about wanting a high paragon / gem player to try this build, touting it as the next coming of Jesus Christ if “enough people play it” and when someone does show you what it looks like in a GR 130 the excuses start coming out.
I dislike that because it shows you’re looking for excuses instead of just looking at the progression against a weak barb build; EQ, which is not even a real push build. If it’s not wrecking GR 130 at almost 10k Paragon it’s not wrecking 130 ever. Very simple. You can fish for a 1/10,000 rift to prove the point that other Barb builds will clear the same rift faster and higher, I guess.
Some excuses I’ve seen so far:
- Gameplay isn’t perfect
- Missing augments (More augments would give you 10% damage)
- Move more paragon from vit to STR
Those are all excuses to deflect from the fact that the build is not a powerhouse like many predicted.
I like testing stuff as much as you do, but until you take the build for a spin on a high GR, you won’t really see things in-game. I also dislike people who make crazy predictions about the game without actually playing the things they’re talking about.
As for the math discussion I still disagree, Barbs rely purely on AD for very high tiers. +5000 STR might give me +10% damage but I’m still capped at 5 targets in density, relying on the AD of 5 things. Come on, that’s terrible. Mainstat is not the problem here.
The build is fun to play and it’s very tanky, but I’m only discussing clearing efficiency in density. Every other Barb build can do that better than SS.
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While 5,000 plus strength would be 10% more damage. 10% more damage isn’t even a full GR worth of damage increase.
Once again, not sure what y’all are arguing.
I’m not going to say Arch is perfect and knows everything, but y’all trying to lecture him on how to play and min max a build that is obviously inferior to several other builds is frustrating to watch.
He showed you guys what 50,000 Strength and 150 Rank Gems looks like with the build. What more do you want?
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No one is complaining. If you go back and read the posts, Pro, Storm and I all thanked you for running the build to get your impressions.
Yes there are a few of us that would have liked to see you clear 130 when trying the build for a few hours. Did it happen? Nope.
Were there a few things you could have done that might have been better? Yes.
Would it have made much of an impact on your few hours of testing? Probably not much.
Were any of these comments saying your tests were awful? Nope.
The people you are referring to making crazy predictions have been playing this build for months not hours. Some of us know the build well. I personally have tried over 30 different variations in the 6 months I have been playing it. I am still am coming up with new ones to try and haven’t determined which is optimal. And the build you ran was different from all of them. I never have run with Leorics which I had to test out today to see if it was significantly better.
No disagreement on the AD.
Also I think we would all like to see the SS work on more than 5 mobs but we all got to work with what we got.
Once again thank you for running the tests and posting the videos. Most excellent of you.
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Here’s a 124, 125, 126 without fishing for layouts. Failed at 126 (Floor 1-3 very bad)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEfDxp5RpB4
Many times, I am forced to wait until SS kills the density before I can DPS everything else on a pull.
Again the build is cool / fun but the waiting factor is a major issue.
Some highlights
- It’s very hard to die
- I think Leoric > Pride of Cassius in Cube
- Boss kill is very fast in 120-124 tier
At 128 you start needing very good situation and 1-2 floor max for a solid clear.
With paragon 4000-5000 you can probably do 100% of GR 120s with this build.
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Awesome, checking the videos now.
You might want to try earthen might as a passive. I found it better when CotA and WotB is down. You can get off 3 or 4 slams per leap it seemed to me it increased my dps. Also you get more stack on the RG using this approach.
There is another build that uses Zodiac and Gogok as opposed to BoM and Zeis. You get 100% uptime on WotB and Gogok gets you around a 20% damage increase because of the attack speed and more CDR. On a plus side you are less dependent on range. You also get a bit more dps but you have less defense. I use morticks in the cube and IP iron hide and my RCR from CC as my only defense.
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Thank you very much,Arch.Happy to see this vedioes.
And I agree with that when you have high paragon,you could give up IP.
Ok I watched the videos, very nice. You killed the RG on 126 in around 2:30 seconds is this comparable to the other build you like?
Also could we get your take on how many GRs you can clear by fishing? For some builds like IK HotA I find it small, around 4 GR for me. On WW it is huge, it seems to be above 8. I think this one sits somewhere in the middle which would be round 5 or 6 for me, what is your take?
On 126 yes, same time as EQ. WW is slower and R6 is faster. 2:30 is a very good time for boss with no pylons.
I’d actually like to test Mortick’s in cube and Zodiac ring equipped with 7 second IP.
It’s probably a lot more damage and worth trying, it’d probably kill bosses even faster, just have to be more careful in the rift.
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