Frenzy Barb! Patch Notes!

I’m thrilled to have a set dedicated to a Primary skill, and especially to Frenzy, but as others have pointed out, there are problems with the set. My feedback–which is admittedly made without testing–is as follows:

  1. The damage multipliers for Frenzy are way too low.
  2. The reliance on “Fear” is innovative, but ultimately an obstruction.

My suggestions for fixes will be as follows:

  1. Buff the damage numbers: Minimum of 1500% per stack on the set, and UC should be 500-700%.
  2. Remove the “Fear” aspect from the set’s 2-piece bonus and simply allow enemies affected by shouts to take double damage. The Fear part will also lower the effective power of Bastion’s.

Something else to note about Fear is that it is a hard CC and monsters will quickly go immune (and thus you’ll lose the damage bonus).

A few other comments:

The optimal push setup will likely be 5 Horde of Ninety Savages (H90) + 2 Crimson. You’ll wear Band of Might and Compass Rose and Cube RoRG. You’ll equip Echo Fury and Oathkeeper with Bastion’s in the Cube.
Since this setup uses Endless Walk, you can’t use Flavor, so that diminishes the push potential compared to other builds right out of the gate. In addition, if you use Crimson’s, you’ll have to put UC in the Cube, and that locks pretty much every gear slot except bracer (except . . . see below).

With UC in the Cube, you can’t use Aquila in the Cube, and without Aquila and Band of Might, this build is going to be squishy.

Well, if you sacrifice using Crimson’s, you could put Zodiac in the Cube, Boulder Toss on the bar, and keep Wrath up pretty much all the time with lots of CDR rolls on gear and Boon as a passive. But that means you’ll need to stop attacking with Frenzy to drop a Boulder here and there which, while not a huge deal, will interrupt your ability to DPS solely to reset a cooldown.

That’s an excellent point. If I understand it correctly, the additional attacks simply jumps to a nearby enemy, and the damage of that attack is split between the original monster and the one linked by the chain. Even still, it seems vastly under-powered.

Another excellent point. I see why they did this: Frenzy ramps up over time and other Primary skills don’t, and trying to get the damage output of those other skills to match Frenzy is, frankly, almost impossible without some truly ludicrous multipliers amended to their items.

That said, this could be possible:

New Class Set: Horde of the Ninety Savages

  • 2-Piece Bonus: Double the effectiveness of all Shouts. Feared Enemies take double damage.
  • 4-Piece Bonus: Gain 5% damage reduction for 5 seconds when you attack with a Primary skill (max 50%).
  • 6-Piece Bonus: Every attack with a Primary skill increases the damage of Primary skills by 1000% up to 10 stacks.

I don’t think we can convince them to overhaul the set they just designed, so I would much prefer to focus on getting Frenzy in tip-top shape.

I don’t think that’s how it will work. I don’t know for sure, but I suspect it will work similar to our passives–extend the duration of shouts. Falter, for example, would be 50% dibs damage otherwise, which isn’t a bad little buff.

Here’s another question: Do shouted enemies take double damage from any attacks? I’m talking about the 2-piece bonus. Because if so . . . this is going to get thrown into the zDPS meta right quick.

Life per Hit on weapons, and possibly bracer in place of Vitality. I’m actually concerned about DR and healing in this build, but waiting to see if testing confirms my fears.

On the flip side, y’all, if we can get this buffed into a strong place, we might have a spot as RGK in off-meta speeds. YAY!

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While I’m super excited that Frenzy Barb is finally going to have a set and be a real thing, I’m with all of you in this thread saying that the numbers don’t look strong enough. The Bastion’s changes look promising and I guess we’ll see where the numbers really end up during the PTR with proper equipment/rolls.

The one thing I think we’re going to have to absolutely be loud about and get changed is the 2pc linking a double damage proc to Fear. EF is already really really obnoxious to use in LON HotA because of its high innate fear and HotA builds relying on a lot of AD for large groups. I think Free has it right, changing the 2pc to ‘Enemies affected by shouts’. If I had to guess they might change it to specifically read “Enemies affected by Threatening Shout take double damage” which would open up some rune choices even if I suspect Falter would end up being the go to there as is usually the case.

Still, interesting times ahead fellow barbs. As long as we keep our feedback as clear and constructive as we have for these last few patches that have done wonders for the class, I think we can make this new set the real deal. See you fine folks on PTR.

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Nevalistis just confirmed that the Fear effect is intentially there to have Barb’s playing differently. :frowning:

Certainly, I can understand having this effect synergizing with zDPS WDs, but for solo Barb… Meh

Shame, D3’s always been “play their way”.:frowning:

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Source?

We can work to get that changed.

I assume this is what you are looking for.

Not a great sign, but we shall see how things go.

Yes, thanks. I’ll put together a brief response there, but I’ll also contact her directly with feedback.

The set is mostly going in the right direction. It just needs some tweaks and bigger numbers to really hit home.

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I hope you understand you can get chance to fear on helm, weapon, and ring. Please don’t just try to get your way, and let the developers do their thing.
It sounds cool to me.

I like all of the banter and ideas from all the Barbros here. Cheers.

I have toyed a lot with Frenzy and I strongly agree that the Fear part will be a P.I.T.A. Chasing monsters down and then having to rebuild Frenzy stacks was not a fun play style. You play Frenzy to be a human blender not a “hey come back here you guys”.

Double attack speed on Bastions would be great.

Lastly, I have always found Frenzy stacks fall off way to fast. Some maps with low density become “I should just restart this Rift”. Maybe UC makes Frenzy stacks last twice as long too?

You do realise that Frenzy is a direct, melee-range attack, right? So, if mobs get feared and run away, that means we have to run after them to kill them, i.e. they’re creating a melee build where mobs will regularly be feared out of range. The whole point of Frenzy is standing still and hitting a mob at increasing frequency. Having to stop to run after it means it’s way more likely to lose your stacks.

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I fear this set will become Waste/Rend 2.0 (pre-Ambo’s) where fear will be ignored and not used. No puns intended.

We’ll probably be very purposefully excluding (or at least flagging as outliers) Seasonal performance runs of this set from our data and observation for this reason. It’s called out twice in the PTR blog that we’re very aware of how this Season’s buff could impact the power of the new sets, and we heavily encourage testers focusing on these sets to try them with non-Seasonal characters.

Oh, don’t worry, I’ll be roaming and reading as much as I can, though if you want to shoot me a compilation from folks’ thoughts during PTR, it does always save me time!

We do want to give this concept a go. That doesn’t mean we’re committed to it going live as-is, but we feel it’s worth trying out in at least the PTR environment. Certainly, not everything that sounds fun plays out in practice, and not everyone’s definition of fun is the same. We’ll be looking at a variety of feedback, including your community’s strong theorycrafting as well as general sentiment about its playability from all kinds of sources.

It’s almost certain we won’t get things right on the first pass. Design is an iterative process. I’m glad we have such a passionate community willing to provide us constructive feedback to help us get there!

Now, don’t mind me, I’ll go back to lurking and reading everything like the all-knowing being I am (lol) without you being aware. :female_detective:

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Yes. Look at ww-rend at 140. WW has much better healing.

Agree.

No other better options. lol.

It might be an option + boulder toss for better healing. But I may prefer rage flip gather a lot of mobs.

Yes.

More thoughts about RGK.

Currently the fastest stricken stacking skill is WW-dust devil. People may consider using WW first and Frenzy later. (especially when you have a power pylon nearby)

Hmmmm.

This Frenzy set doesn’t wow me tbh. Never been too interested in a Frenzy focused set. Thornzy was interesting because it was Thorns. Frenzy is basically just HOTA imo. Never seen the appeal of having both. Especially since Gavel lets you spam HOTA.

I’m more excited for the Witch Doctor and Wizard sets.

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Hmm, this setup would be less good, I think, than Depth Diggers in the cube and Compass Rose / BoM / CoE. You’ll lose about half your damage using a CC variant.

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Will the double shout/fear bonus be applied to the wearer only or the entire party? And if the fear buff does apply to party does the person wearing need to proc it or can another party member proc it? If so speed barb runs will be so good. Speed meta for sure. 2xwwrend/zbarb/frenzybarb. pop TS-terrify on coe cycle for a big explosion.

This all sounds fantastic, Nev. I’m looking forward to testing it, and I love the creativity that went into the set’s design.

That said, as has been brought up in this thread (and on the thread in GD), using Fear is a bad idea for several reasons:

  1. It’s a hard CC and will quickly cap. Once monsters are immune, I assume we’ll lose the damage bonus, and it will be mostly useless vs RGs and Juggernauts.
  2. It causes mobs to flee. While the designers might envision players hunting down monsters who flee in terror, the reality is going to be an exercise in frustration. Frenzy has to close to melee and have a more or less stationary target to ramp up damage (and, via this set, accrue damage reduction). Relying on Fear is going to disrupt this, big time.

Again, it’s too early to know for sure if the above concerns are, in fact, real concerns, but I predict that the feedback on the Fear mechanic will be universally as follows: frustrating and unreliable.

I hope the development team is willing to act accordingly if my prediction is true.

I also predict that the build is going to have issues with DR and healing, but we’ll need to get some hands-on time to test and find out.

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Just was watching Rob and Wudi theory crafting this and both agree the damage output is going to be way too low off the initial numbers. Also when it comes to RGs you can’t fear them so there goes the double damage potential on them.

I’ll be testing this build out as well on the ptr on nonseasonal and be trying out the version Rage suggested first. Will provide feedback here as I test. Thinking maybe adding ground stomp to stun after they are feared to prevent them running away. Let’s hope we can get this build the love it needs and get it up to shape by season start cause it has some potential just needs a little TLC.

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I think your right. Weapon Throw might have a made better Primary set.

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When I ran lon frenzy thorns a few seasons back I had a piece with fear on it and even at low fear chance it was awfully annoying. Needless to say I replaced that piece as soon as possible. It was not enjoyable at all.

I also remember back in vanilla running EF, at least then I was using on a monk and I could cyclone strike feared enemies back to me, but still annoying. Who can forget the vanilla WW barbs running echoing fury and fearing everything…

I like that they are trying to think outside the box, but I don’t think fear is the right call here. It’s basically counter-intuitive to the playstyle of frenzy…

The only thing that could make it worthwhile is if the damage was hugely multiplied to feared enemies. If I have to chase these bastards around I better wallop them when I catch them :grinning:

Obviously, we haven’t played the build yet, but in my experience with fear in builds is unpleasant to say the least.

Hota with EF nowadays isn’t too bad, but I’m not intentionally stacking fear, so maybe, but have my doubts.

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