Frenzy Barb! Patch Notes!

I don’t know how the build would be much fun to play solo from what I have read. If the Monsters flee to all corners of the floor when they are feared it would be such a pain to chaise them down.
Funny after all this time shunning Fear on items for most builds, that the Dev’s would incorporate Fear as a set damage bonus on the new set. :thinking: :face_with_raised_eyebrow:
I might have to teach my Followers to lasso and drive the “Afeared Monster Critters” back to the Old Barbarian Corral, so I can Hog-Tie and slaughter them with all my Frenzy. :wink:
Anyway, it will be very interesting to see how it actually plays, maybe using Threatening Shout - Demoralize, might help keep monsters contained.??

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I probably shouldnt say this, but who wants to see me do the macro IK/frenzy/bash build?

And yes, that says macro. I can do it by hand, but as one season taught, dont do it.

I would prefer to wait for the PTR so I am less likely to be banned for the macro, which is nothing more than it randomly hitting the bash button. Unlikely to be a ban, but I would prefer to be safe.

Lots of valid concerns being voiced here. Thanks everyone for contributing.

Two excellent suggestions, particularly about Taunt. Thematically, it’s different from what the devs envision (and again, I really respect that creativity), but mechanically, this suggestion is awesome. Demoralize > Terrify!

Seiya, thanks very much for recording this.

I want to draw everyone’s attention to something specific within the video:

The footage stars 7:35 into the rift. Watch what happens at 7:40.

See that?

That right there is going to ruin pushes.

He Leaps in, hits Terrify, and a crappy elite pack scatters. Even though they can’t go far due to the map, he can still only attack 1 of 3 elites at a time. For the Fear mechanic to be worthwhile, the damage bonus it provides would have to be absolutely massive; he would have to be able to cut down an elite in seconds, then Leap or Charge (because he’ll need to proc Band of Might) over to the next. And in an open map with good density, this will be harder to do, because elites will be able to travel farther.

What’s more, he would have to be able to burst down elites in seconds in GR 110, 120, and 130+ for there to be any reason for anyone to ever bother with this set.

And that isn’t all: Much of the set’s damage potential seems to be loaded into the 6-pc bonus that splits damage between chained enemies. But using Fear will disrupt this, minimizing the damage dealt, and making that chain effect all but useless. You can see this happen in the link I provided.

On the one hand, this flips the script for Barb pushes. Instead of the open, dense maps that our other builds need, this build might thrive on narrow, sparsely populated maps, particularly as an elite hunter. But if that’s the case, there are three key things that have to be addressed:

  1. The damage bonus on Feared enemies has to be way, way bigger or abandoned for another bonus/effect.
  2. The DR offered while attacking has got to be bigger.
  3. The chain damage effect is all but useless if paired with Fear.

Again, this set has some awesome creative ideas, but mechanically they are counter productive.

Everyone, going forward I would like to collect all this focused feedback along with examples and videos. This will be especially important when the PTR rolls around. I’ll open a new thread in the PTR section when the set is on the test server, and I’ll ask all of you to contribute the same high-quality feedback there.


That’s part of Bastion’s, not part of the 6 piece. Speaking of which…

New Bastion’s is obviously better than old Bastion’s. But, let’s look at the AoE picture…

With 9 enemies surrounding the guy you’re actually hitting (so, a group of 10 mobs), each of them will be taking 10 damage per hit compared to the 100 per hit you’re dealing to that guy.

So on each strike, “Mob 1” will take 100 from “initial” Frenzy hit, 10 from “additional” Frenzy hit, and (assume you’ve got 100% AD) 18 from AD coming from the surrounding mobs. 128 damage total.

“Mobs 2-10” will take 10 from the “additional” Frenzy hit, 20 from AD from “Mob 1” and 16 from AD coming from other surrounding mobs. 46 damage total.

That doesn’t seem too bad for AoE, but then again, if instead of spreading the damage around, BR just doubled the Frenzy damage (or always hit the same guy twice), then “Mob 1” would be taking 200 from the Frenzy hit(s), and the guys around him would be taking 40 from AD.

I think 200/40 is pretty obviously better than 128/46, since this set really seems like it’s going to get you GR progression by grinding down elites quickly. And with 178% AD, the highest you can reasonably have, those numbers become 142/74 vs 200/71, at which point any beneficial effect of the “spread” effect on Bastion’s has nearly disappeared. It’s better to have that damage concentrated on a single point.

As for Bloodshed, doubled damage, however it is distributed among enemies, will double your average Bloodshed damage as well (this is assuming, of course, the Bastion’s proc can actually proc either Bloodshed or AD… a big IF).

Thanks again for recording. One thing I was keen to see was how well you were able to keep up your Echoing Fury stacks. It seemed like you had stacks most of the time, so I think it’s certainly a viable choice.

Yeah, don’t do it, not worth it.

I noticed they were staying up longer than I thought they would as well. It definitely helps with clean up as soon as one mob goes down.

It really isnt, but that is because after I got everything put together today, I found out it has too many buttons needed to really be usable at higher tiers.

When I first made it, I was only interested in GR70 to finish the season. The same season I did that for the set dungeon, I did my pushing on a Necro. Now…, yeah, I would not suggest it.

Hey guys!

There’s a typo in the patch notes that you might find super interesting. This might be on me, or might be on my proofreading team, but I’m going to update it here shortly and thought I’d give ya’ll the heads up.

Here’s how Bastion’s Revered currently reads:

  • Bastion’s Revered
    • Frenzy now stacks up to 10 times and hits an additional time per attack. Each additional hit will chain to any enemies within 15 yards and the damage is split between all affected enemies.

Here’s how it’s supposed to read:

  • Bastion’s Revered
    • Frenzy now stacks up to 10 times and hits an additional time per stack. Each additional hit will chain to any enemies within 15 yards and the damage is split between all affected enemies.

I’m sure that’s going to impact a theorycraft thought or two. Enjoy!


I’m more interested in hearing how the extra damage is going to be applied to mobs that have run away due to fears and are therefore nowhere near within 15 yards of the Barb.


Oh geez, thanks for letting us know. Yeah, that makes a big difference…

Oh… well, that changes everything. :joy:

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I kind of thought it was weird that it would increase per attack, this explains my confusion greatly.

Yeah, him too. Owes me money…

Speaking of Bastion’s, I’m thinking more and more about how its proposed chain effect is totally at odds with the set’s reliance on Fear. No matter how much damage is chained to nearby opponents, we’re still using Fear in tandem, and thus we’re either losing out on the Fear bonus (and thus the full damage bonus) or some of Bastion’s damage bonus (because mobs are running away and can’t be “chained”).

The more I think about it, the more I like DH’s suggestion that the set’s bonus should be focused on Taunt as opposed to Fear. :woman_shrugging:

Well, I’m trying to figure out what this set is all about, because the big picture painted by it and its supporting legendaries is really contradictory. The set seems all about scattering mobs and incentivizing you to burst down elites, but Bastion’s additional affix seems like it will only shine in density–the kind that is disrupted by the set’s reliance on Fear.

So . . . :confused:

I think the intent is all about bursting down elites and scattering mobs to create those opportunities, but in praxis . . . eh, it leaves a lot to be desired.

Thank you for the clarification, Nev, but that doesn’t address the problem I described above. Are we supposed to rely on damaging density via these “chains” but also rely on scattering density via Fear? None of this actually adds up to a cohesive whole.

Yes, this changes the bigger picture about our damage output, but it doesn’t do much to clarify how this set is ideally intended for play. Would it be possible to get some more info on that?


I retract my previous statement about IK being better now. Thank you for all the input

That one made me pause for a few moments.

I think it will have an amusing effect. That being that all those attacks will even out the rng on attacks, such as crit and AD.

That said, up to 60 attacks per second and AD, something is going to not go well. Will WW lose its lord of lag title? It will also make Bane of the Stricken very good.

The more I have looked at things, and after Rage and I looked at the math, the more I am certain Bastion will be best for only 2 mobs at a time. In a large group, it will slow down its effect.

However, I have noticed one major benefit even in large groups. EF loses it stacks when things do not die fast enough. If they are weakened while clearing other mobs, the last kills will go much faster. Aka, initial fight will go slowly, the things will die in an avalanche as you start attacking faster and faster.

If it was not a two-hander, Messerschmidt would be amazing as you could clear the cooldown on WotB very fast.

Set is bonkers can’t wait now

My current plan is to just not use it. It most likely will not help on bosses and I am usually a lazy casual.

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The only way I see this working is if this “chain” also applies a physical restraint that keeps elites and trash alike locked within that 15 yards radius. If not, it’ll be a fail.

Yep, it’ll be Wastes all over again.

Honestly, given this change, I think it may make the Fear bonus feel more like exactly that - a bonus when it happens and you can capitalize on it, rather than the crux of the set. Personal opinion: I think you could opt to avoid using it and may still have a decent RGK option (with possible synergy with a Horrify WD). I’ll also admit I’m not a top tier theorycrafter, but this is probably how I’ll use it in my runs with friends next Season.

I’ll talk with the devs, as I always do, but I had shared the original intent already in another thread. We’ve done quite a lot lately to lift up Barbarians, and we wanted to add a different, fun, and thematic set to the mix. We’re interested in the idea of a “herding, then culling” sort of fantasy here, so that’s what we’re trying to capture.

Of course, if it’s not a fun set, that’s one thing, and we’re open to revisiting. We’re not always trying to put in the next best performing set. At the end of the day, we are making a game, and we want there to be fun, interesting things for everyone, at any level, to play. Either way, the version you see in the Patch Notes is what you’ll be able to play with on PTR this Thursday. How it looks before it arrives on live is what’s up for debate, and what we’re eager to see folks test. :slight_smile:


No, no, it’s actually best when you’re just fighting one guy! Because then that extra damage gets piled onto that guy, rather than split up between a bunch of targets.

Ok, so at 10 stacks of Frenzy, Frenzy will hit 10 additional times, spread between all enemies within 15 yards.

So, let’s say a single hit of Frenzy does 100 damage, and you’ve got 100% AD, and Frenzy at 10 stacks, hitting…

1 enemy : Mob 1 takes 1100 damage from Frenzy

5 enemies: Mob 1 takes 300 damage from Frenzy, 160 damage from AD, 460 damage total . Mobs 2-5 take 200 damage from Frenzy, 180 damage from AD, 380 damage total.

10 enemies: Mob 1 takes 200 damage from Frenzy, 180 damage from AD, 380 damage total. Mobs 2-10 take 100 damage from Frenzy, 200 damage from AD, 300 damage total.

Again, this is all assuming these Bastion procs can trigger AD…

I feel like the set would be more beneficial if it was triggered off of shout and taunt mechanics (both, that way a group build could use a taunt in rotation with like Threatening Shout: Falter or Demoralize) rather than fear. I get that it would be cool if the fear was all flashy and goes off from time to time, but it becomes really useless, really quickly. I’m going to test the crap out of this set starting on the 6th, but I already have a big laundry list of ideas I’m gonna test, first, and then suggest. This is the primary thing I think needs to be changed, for real.