Ethereal Feedback (Part 1)

Haha, yeah it seems like that right? The 2000% multiplier is just a general idea, but it gets it close. I think UE6/M6 Chakram is GR108-110 at 5k paragon atm. So 19 GRs from the weapon brings it a little over GR131-132 when the other Ethereal affixes are factored in.

N6M4 Chakram is ~GR118-119, with the substitution of Bombardier Rucksack for an Ethereal 1h xbow as a legendary power, it’s ~GR114-115 – so we’re talking mid GR137-138ish all affixes considered.

That’s because the Burrito is the only one that gives UE MS proper stats. But we lose a TON of DPS from lack of RCR because we’re firing off very very slow generators to build that back up. Remember, the devs never implemented a system where slower weapons generate more hatred to offset the fewer generators you can fire off in a given time frame. Yang’s is still going to do better than Burrito for the MS build, by far. MS leans unbelievably heavily on that RCR for DPS uptime.

Not impressed with the lack of +Vit roll on ethereals. Survivability is key and paramount to any good build. More life should be a good thing.

:+1: I agree, having each weapon have its own build would make sure all 3 weapons have a use for each class.

:+1: Yep, I noticed that too since there are many affixes that are present on all 3 weapons for a given class.

That said, the most powerful affixes should be common to each of the 3 weapons while the moderately powerful affixes can vary. It’s far easier to balance weapons with lesser affixes than their strongest ones.

:+1: Again, I agree since one of the biggest issues with the ethereal bow is the lack of RCR compared to Yang’s Recurve. This lack of RCR also massively hurts toughness since UE multishot uses Captain Crimson. I would recommend the RCR values be closer to 50% because of this for some classes. The CDR shouldn’t exceed 30-35% though for most classes (DH isn’t a cooldown bound class though).

:+1: This has always been a mixed bag in that some builds benefit from it and others don’t. Group settings for sure have issues with CC abilities so I would imagine it’s better to remove those affixes from ethereals. The idea to change them to soft CC effects is a good idea.

I also found it odd that only the DH weapons had a massive +35% hard CC effect while others had +5%; this is likely because they used Windforce and Buriza-Do Kyanon as the mold and added things to it.

:+1: That surprised me too but I think it might have been that the developers were too cautious with making very large buffs to certain builds. By similarity, Crusaders and Monks did not receive a 2-hand ethereal weapon!

While the hand-crossbow is one of the weakest ethereals in the game at the moment (comparing to the other 2 DH ones), one fix could be to allow dual wielding of that one ethereal. That would put it in line with the very strong crossbow ethereal. However, that approach might irk other dual wield classes (Monk and Barb) so perhaps they could tune the Monk and Barb one-handers to be a little weaker so that dual-wielding is a fair option; they could even mix two different ethereals that way unlike DH who only has one type of hand-crossbow.

Your idea to change the hand-crossbow into a dagger or sword is another viable option but would mean that DH is the only class without a class-specific weapon ethereal. This is not a big issue but lore-wise, every other class would have an ethereal of their unique class: Barbarian – Mighty Weapon, Crusader – Flail, Monk – Fist Weapon, Necromancer – Scythe, Witch Doctor – Ceremonial Knife, Wizard – Wand.

Also, the developers have to be careful to not simply flag the hand-crossbow as a melee weapon because of the Shadow set bonus. This would open the door to a Natalya/Shadow hybrid build where a player gets both the S2 bonus and N6 bonus for a total 8601x damage multiplier to every skill! This would completely overpower DH and ruin game balance (3 DH + zBarb would be the meta for speed 150s).

This was a very good overview that I agree with but I have a couple more concerns:

:six: The ethereals have a damage range that isn’t simple to understand. Basically, ethereals have a hidden physical damage modifier which isn’t visible on the list of affixes but is visible on the total damage range of the weapon (and its DPS). This hidden “black” damage affix does have some variability since two identical ethereals with same attack speed and +% damage modifier can have different DPS values.

This also makes it cumbersome for some players to understand in that some weapons may be better than others without a clear reason (e.g. the ethereal crossbow with a high +X-Y cold damage modifier may actually have less DPS than another with a lower modifier).

:seven: The +1 maximum damage per paragon (max 800) is a confusing affix that seems to work like the damage range on a ring. It ignores the +90-100% damage modifier on the weapon and does not reflect on the weapon’s DPS value (but does influence the player’s DPS). After paragon 800, the affix roughly translates to three ring rolls of +89-178 damage (that is +267-534 damage is approximately equal to +800 max damage), thus it is a very powerful affix that should be present on every weapon for equality.

Another interesting idea would be to change it to +0.5% critical hit damage per paragon (max +400%) or something to remove the reliance on emeralds for a season! The ruby would be king in the weapon socket, especially with the +90-100% damage modifier!

:eight: Some ethereals have bugs and/or are missing affixes. For example, the hand-crossbow is missing the “ignores durability loss” affix, and because of this, it can get damaged. Interestingly, it can also be repaired which is NOT how the ethereals work in Diablo II. I expect these bugs to be patched before they go live though.


I will add a few more ideas if I come up with any later. I won’t make a massive PTR feedback post as I have done before but dmkt can incorporate any of my ideas into the OP.

Keep up the good work dmkt!

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First off it’s Buriza (Japanese for ‘Blizzard’).

Secondly you’re using Buriza because the beefed up stats on it make it far better than alternatives such as Yang’s or even ethereal Windforce. There is nothing inherently ‘proper’ about those stats as pertains to MS. Not to mention, thematically it’s entirely incorrect (a MS DH should wield a bow).

Now ethereal Windforce does have a proper stat (+200% dmg to Archery skills), but it’s unfortunately not only missing the crucial RCR and discipline but underpowered compared to Buriza. Which goes to show how much the devs missed their mark on this one.

I don’t care what its name translates into. I already know that, thanks. I’m still calling it Burrito.

The beefed up stats that gave me a 4400 DPS weapon cleared slower than Yang’s. Missing the RCR and disc (all of them lack discipline) really hurts UE MS. We rely on rapid refilling of resources, including our disc, which is tied to how fast we can fire our generators, and we rely on the RCR. We lose both on all of the weapons, with one of them giving us just a tiny break with 10-12% RCR, which is a far cry from the 40-50% on Yang’s.

The beefed up stats means jack squat when it clears slower because you’re losing resources and filling them excruciatingly slow due to the Burrito’s firing rate.

The real issue here is that there are only three per class, so they kind of have to be generic to fit the most builds possible. Unfortunately for the DH, only the top builds got boosted. The underperforming ones got nothing. This theme really needs to be kept on the back burner until season 25 so they have time to iterate more on it.

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+1

eighteen more char

Lol his idea is far better than their current idea which is Ethereals = :poop:

Considering there’s only 3 of them per class, they’ve already become a tired novelty that has worn off much sooner than later, since they’re all the same and people have already started ignoring them.

That, like I said, is a FAIL.

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/d3/t/time-to-call-it-ethereals-are-a-fail/35752

And, just in case you’ve forgotten, this is supposed to be the main selling point of the next season…the thing that’s supposed to make you want to play longer than a week or 2 and then abandon it altogether like most people do nowadays.

Not quite.

Personally I would like to avoid farming for a specific Ethereal to play a specific build considering they also roll random legendary effects that may be completely incompatible with the build I have in mind, therefore I like +dmg bonus to all skills better than +dmg bonus to a specifc skill category.

Since Ethereal is a one season thing, I don’t really care if some of them are completely garbage but that may be just me.

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Okay call it what you want, doesn’t change the fact that it’s icy instead of hot :smiley:

Admittedly I haven’t gone on the PTR and tested it myself, as I’m too busy with S23 to bother leveling a fresh seasonal toon. But I wouldn’t be surprised that Buriza performs worse than Yang’s. Even in some UE hungering arrow runs I was feeling lack of discipline from not having the RCR. Compounded with the lack of hatred for MS is why I mentioned earlier that pushing MS will be aids with Buriza/Windforce. The only real remedy is to take Pride’s Fall but this entails losing a DPS gem for Gizzard.

Actually they don’t have to be generic at all. Windforce for instance, only provides %dmg for Archery skills, so one can assume that the devs wanted this to be a MS/CA exclusive weapon. The real issue is why they didn’t have the foresight to add RCR and discipline rolls on it too, given the importance of these stats for those skills.

1.) There is a problem with that is that with a lot of different category or certain skills you will need to have an extra layer of randomness that might not work. The whole idea of having static stats is that it improves everything while only needing to rely on rng where it counts the passive and legendary power.
2.) Varying affixes is what we don’t want. It will be hard enough to find one with the right passive and legendary power. We don’t want to make it worse by adding in more randomness.

the +100% to all skills is a massive boost, it will literally take all the extra dmg you get from all your other multipliers and DOUBLE that dmg output…that’s way more dmg output…

HK, I bet you find at least 40-50 of them by the end of a season ending with 2500 paragon.

Most of the build guides for Season 24 will resemble S23/2.7.0, unless something changes.

Well, I hope thats the case otherwise it’s RNG on top of RNG on top of RNG hell with no way out.

Yeah. And I think people are underestimating how hard it’s going to be to get a really good one for your build.

It seems easy on PTR when you can pop 20 bags from the goat every rift. When the rate that you are able to acquire ethereal weapons slows way down on live, I think people will find it’s a bit of a grind to get the correct ethereal with one of the legendary powers they want.

It could take a lot more than that if you add too much RNG to the roll options.

I went through about 50 of The Oculus before I got one with the power I wanted. And I had two power options I could use! They will probably be compromises made, e.g. maybe in season 24 I play with an ethereal Wizardspike instead of The Oculus, because I happened to find a Wizardspike with the correct power.

Adding another layer of RNG could take a 1 in 20 roll to a 1 in 100+ roll, and you could go an entire season without sniffing a viable Ethereal. I’m okay with them being rare, they are supposed to be rare and powerful. But adding another level of RNG to the roll doesn’t seem like a good idea. Ideally you should at least have a chance to get a decent one without needing to play 40+ hours a week. Adding too much RNG to the rolls might make that impossible.

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They are not terribly uncommon. I get like 1 every 5 grifts.

Hey TinnOnnMuin – that’s half the problem right there – you wanted exactly one(1) very specific Ethereal rolled with a very specific legendary effect. In addition to point :one: the restriction of the All Damage Affix to a specific set of underperforming skills and :three: dial up the utility rolls, they could restrict the Ethereal’s legendary rolls on a per item basis:

Ethereal Windforce (with heavy 600% to Archery): should only roll with corresponding legendary affixes for Archery Skills (DML, Yang’s, Manticore, Strafe Pierce, etc) + Dawn + Echoing Fury + Fortress Ballista + Bombardier, etc.

Ethereal DoomSticker (yes converted the 1 xbow to a 1h melee weapon type): should only roll with Holy Point Shot, Karlei’s, Lord Greenstone + Dawn + Echoing Fury + Fortress Ballista.

Ethereal Buriza (as +2500% to Elemental Arrow/Chakram): should only roll with + Augustine+ Kridershot + Spines of Seething Hatred + Sword of Ill Will + Dawn + Echoing Fury + Fortress.

This way you’re mostly satisfied getting the Weapon Type you desire. The less influential RNG for the Passive is not too significant towards your ability to use the item, if you get a DoomSticker with Archery, oh well it’s just ~8-10% damage loss. The 35% CDR affix roll on these items will contribute to the desirability of Echoing Fury and Fortress purposeful as you’re still able to dump Dawn.

This approach might translate differently for other classes, but it makes 100% sense for DH and Crusader.

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Yes either restrict some of the RNG on the rolls or double the drop rate. With skills and passives that’s RNG enough, perhaps these have to be Primal Ancient.

Something I’ve noticed (and somewhat dreaded) is that a lot of the legendary powers I’ve seen thus far pertain to energy twister. It kind of reminds me how restrictive some of the legendary powers are.

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Me when I open a bunch of bags on PTR and ID all the Oculus’s:

Twister
Twister
Twister
Furnace
OoID
Furnace
Furnace
OoID
Furnace
Twister

Where’s my Orb powers, damnit! Well, that’s not true, I’d get a bunch of Triumvirates too. Not that one, RNG gods! Was my goat sacrifice not deemed worthy?

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