Last time I checked the game has been out 7.5 years, not 10.
Buffs, buffs and even more buffs, when does this madness end.
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Irrevelant? The goal is GR140ish with 10,000 Paragon according to devs and we have GR150 done by sader and barb in a Season.
Nerf bat incoming…
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Exactly…so if the target is GR146 in non season then the target for Seasons is less thus the nerf bat will come out.
The only other factor to mention is whether the S19 theme makes that big of a difference that means there balance is out.
In that if barbs and saders never had the S19 theme would they still do GR150? If so it needs nerfed according to Blizz’s balance goals.
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Again true and a good point about the S19 theme…but if Blizz’s goal is GR140 non season is their goal GR150 with certain seasonal buffs then?
Shall be interesting to see if any nerfs come to saders and barbs in 2.68.
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75% of something is ‘nearly’ there, you’re attempting to split hairs because you had a bad point.
Stop whining. Seriously it’s a game, the anti power creep crowd that do not understand this games structure make things worse not better.
Nerfing in this game throws balance off way more than buffing and has far more negative consequences (gem levels,augments) than buffing. If you’re playing seasonal you can eat that last line b/c buff hands you more power than anything in the game to date.
There’s a crazy season buff?? And it’s gr140ish out of season, an important distinction.
Overall, it might be a teensy bit too strong. But blizzard in general tends to overdo it with balance patches. I don’t want the builds dumpstered
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I agree, no more seasonal buffs. Get rid of all of it, haedrig’s, everything. Shouldn’t need snowflake mode to enjoy the game.
On a more serious note, the seasonal buff adds 30+ gr’s worth of power, depending on the user and base character strength. Meaning no one cares or takes seasonal clears seriously at this point. This is crossing the line with ‘no child left behind’ which is what seasonal actually is.
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Indeed so without the S19 buff I wonder what barbs could do in a season? If that is GR140ish then they may be left alone?
Another thread discussed nerfing overpowered classes that meet the game producer’s definition (I would not call him an anti-power creeper who does not understand the game.).
At my last count, there were 25 posters in favor of keeping barbs and crusaders as is (or at least barbs). Let’s dig a little deeper, 2 of these people did not have an account in any region.
I next considered what the main class of each posters was given their career profile (to be considered the main class, it had to be the most or second most played class).
Of 23 “no nerf” posters, 17 mained a barb, 3 mained crusaders, and 3 were other classes. This is striking for a couple reason. First, not many crusader mains voiced their opinion. You could envision multiple explanations (not many crusader players overall, they do not know about the thread, or simply the recognize the fact that they are overpowered and a nerf is required). Of note, when wizards and necromancers were nerfed in patch 2.6.7, very few wizards complained and even less necromancers. Most were rational in that they knew that there class (or at least a particular build) was far more powerful than others. I suspect the same phenomenon is occurring at least to some extent here relative to crusaders).
For barbarians, it is more complex. They are not as obviously overpowered as crusaders. They also have “spread the word” by creating a thread in their forum about nerf thread, raising visibility.
Some are also using an argument that barbarians were the weakest class for years and now it is their time to shine. This argument is interesting for 2 reasons.
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Balance was used as an argument to justify buffs to barbs when weak, but when the same metrics show the power of barbs currently, the argument shifted to those data metric are invalid. Being weak for a period of time does not justify being overpowered if one truly cares about the class balance in general.
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What is the data about barbarian strength through the years? Patch 2.6.1 ended in mid January 2019 (so roughly a year ago.) Prokahn, a trusted member of the barb community, looked at relative class power. He found 5 classes were well balanced. Demon hunters were slightly weak and witch doctors were very weak by 5-6 GRs. So the argument that barbarians have been weak for recent years is not supported by the data.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/7gv52h/analysisseason_12_data_greater_rift_clearing/
He writes:
" Conclusions:
Overall, in Patch 2.6.1, the developers did a great job with balancing all of the classes with each other. Currently, Witch doctors and the demon hunters may need a slight tune up, but the current balance seems to be close to perfect. Well done to the developer team. Especially Don Vu."
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According to the game producer, a max non-season of 139-143 good. 144-145 questionable (maybe nerf, maybe not). 146 and above, nerf range in near future most likely.
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Mostly because of unintended bugs, which is why they didn’t complain. From what I understand the current macro setup isn’t so hot for most of the community either. If you played the game instead of telling people what they should want you’d understand.
'Saders are just waiting to see how it works out.
At this point the people that are die hard about this are in the overwhelming minority. You’re one of maybe 5 people, who are very, very loud. You only need to see me post and wall o text lol.
There is a difference between your kind of fun police and the people that just hate power creep.
Add necro to the list, that class is totally eye gouging. Weak sets, everything centered around LOTD in every build. It’s like they didn’t learn from literally years of gear correcting Crusader design.
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I think by definition, diehards are the minority in most things. For example, we know that the minority of the playerbase make the leaderboard. Of this minority, only 2.2% are above 5K paragons for the final era 11 solo leaderboard America region (Top 2000 per class, 14000 entries total).
Does playing the game >6000 hours enough to have game knowledge?
I like data. I prefer to explain my rationale.
As I wrote, this is not about the current data, but a direct quote from Prokahn’s analysis he did when patch 2.6.1 was active. I will admit that long posts do have a problem in that if someone does not read carefully, then there can be misperceptions.
This is a trope of those who typically want to rationalize why their favorite class should not be nerfed when it is overpowered. 80% of your career play time is with crusaders and barbarians.
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Psst… https://d3resource.com/seasons/index.php
Did you forget that Witch Doctor was the trash clearer in seasons 7 to 12?
Did you forget that some classes are always included in the 4 man meta since season 5? The simple fact is better balance would lead to better diversity in the 4 man meta. This includes all roles such as trash killer, RGK, and zDPS.
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The reason for that is that no other class can provide the healing a Monk does and no other class can provide the grouping capabilities of a Barb. If you want other classes to be zDPS, they have to provide at least as much utility as this. What classes / abilities could substitute for this?
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You already provided the answer. You need to improve other classes as healers or pullers. Alternatively, the ability for monks to heal in groups or barbs to pull in groups could be dimished.
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Yeah, we used to have Crusaders as the healers but then they nerfed consecration so that the healing circles couldn’t stack…
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No need to nerf starpact. Starpact is one of best creative, funny, interesting, juicy mechanics in game. Blizz love to nerf such stuff ;(
We dont need to lose another one
But: archon shouldnt work with deathwish and etched sigil. Or it should work permanently in any situations. I want to have DW+ES buffs for my archon beam permanently. It can be cool with manald for example.
And ofc we need to have more gr than 150. All the words about balance not have a sense while this limit exists
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How can you call for don’t nerf when
A you dont even have a barb
B you dont run star pact wiz
C your paragon is barely 800 so you wouldn’t have come remotely close to mid game on sader
Are you solely basing this on videos and leader boards when you havnt even touched endgame yourself. Seems pretty half baked when ur asking for nerfs and not nerfs for builds you yourself arnt even close to playing
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It would yea cause that player shows more experience and knowledge on the game. Not someone logging in who’s paragon could be achieved after 3 days of play or a half day carry
I’m not saying his view is invalid but it doesn’t hold much weight given how inexperienced he is at this game