Disappointing Primal Kanai cube recipe

Well you will need almost 2 per primal you want to make. 1 if you salvage a trash one you make.

I’m not complaining l, at least I hope it doesn’t sound like that lol. I’m just expressing an opinion personally I’d rather take forever to find one as it’s being super rare but when it does drop you get to roll a dream item lol

Anyways folks nice chatting and thanks to the couple of people that cleared some things up for me. Cheers.

Looks at rings and amulets

I think I have to reiterate this as it just flew over some people’s heads.

I’m not sure where the idea that I was expecting 13 perfect primals in day 2 or some other inanity like that came from but obviously it didn’t come from reading my thread. Or that somehow I wanted gear to matter more than paragon. Or wanting to gear out a build good enough to push grifts with to be less difficult.

Not what I was asking for at all. Because in reality getting perfect primals in every slot is the least important BY FAR in the end game, especially after you get your primal weapon, and it would still be the least important BY FAR even if you got a full perfect primal set, so there’s 0 reason as to why it should be pretty much impossible to get.

High level rift pushing is not based on having perfect rolls in every piece of gear, at all. What currently happens is you get a gear set that is “good enough” and then you’re pretty much DONE with gearing. The rest is just non stop paragon and augment farming until you just can’t take it any more.

It’s probably the most soulless and unrewarding farming there is, and giving us a non-RNG way to turn more of that effort into obtaining full perfect gear sets, NOT JUST A SINGLE ITEM, would alleviate A LOT of lack of reward and would highly encourage experimenting with other builds as well.

Again, I am not asking for this process to be easy, just actually achievable in a non-suicide inducing timeframe. We should realistically be able to accomplish what should have been a big draw to gearing out, the satisfaction of getting the perfect gear set for a build, which is currently just a cool thought that is immediately crushed by a tidal wave of disappointment.

Now some will scream that it’s a bad idea for whatever reason, but the answers in this very thread, and D3’s end game proves the exact opposite. Nobody has ever articulated a good enough reason as to why this should not be implemented, especially considering the stage of life this game is in.

The reality is this new recipe just does not cut it. You will be using it a few times to perfect a single primal, much less if you don’t care to perfect its secondary stats, most likely your weapon, and that’s it. That is just disappointing and sad, especially because it had so much potential.

Or maybe leave this recipe as is, but introduce a decent drop rate consumable that removes the equip limit from an item that was upgraded with the cube, and allow us to separately reroll primary and secondary stats at the enchantress!

Maybe introduce some tweaks to the Altar feature that help out solo players so they’re not completely blown out and disadvantaged by 4man groups in terms of efficiency.

It would be incredible if we actually got a 14th stash tab finally as well!

Something, ANYTHING more than this, would be so much better. You can do it, Blizz!

You say:

Then you say:

Well, which is it? Because you can’t have both. Once a non-random way to get perfect gear in multiple slots is introduced it will be abused and in days (if not hours). Because whatever the resource or item necessary will be farmed like crazy by elite 4 man teams maximize every aspect of the effort. Things would take a solo player a week to find they’ll get in a few hours.

I guess some people are just never satisfied. There’s nothing preventing you from effectively gearing for multiple builds on multiple characters. D3 is so ridiculously easy to gear that you can accumulate resources, create a character and be mostly geared within a few hours tops. The fact is, they continually make it easier for this to happen and still people are complaining it’s not easy enough.

Sorry friend, but no. Paragon matters a lot more than “perfect” gear. Grinding paragon is the #1 goal of competitive players because the margin of power between “mostly perfect” ancients and “perfect primals” is far smaller than that of a gap of thousand+ paragon.

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So, opposite to your “reasons why this shouldn’t exist” - what are the reasons you think this should?

What your change does is lower the RNG grind time, this is that main gameplay loop of D3. Ok, so getting into the “near perfect max percentile” takes less time, you reach the top 3% lets say 30% faster then last season, you max out your GR @ that particular percentile in a few runs. Do a few more to max your gems, squeeze out 1 more GR level. Then? Then you go back to try to get a deeper percentile. Thats always gonna be the loop. You go for top2%, top 1%. top 0.001% no matter how much you try to derandomize, reduce or linearize the growth curve.

All your really doing is squishing the numbers towards the end of the scale to be a tighter homogenized group as it gets easier and less random. The result of this is gear in general matters less in the highend cause the gap between the guy who grinds the most and less maybe shrinks, and the high end of the game is SKILL starts to matters more then gear.

I think most people contend that’s not what they want, the gear in d3 should matter, the grind SHOULD matter. d3 is a loot hunt game, not an APM, best clicker game. Your change really only makes it matter less.

The primal craft is there because getting an ancient/primal weapon, that first one that’s the right one for your build sucks, it reduces the amount of time getting setup to enter the “real” part of D3 where you have a decent build and are getting your farm on. That IMO is its purpose.

And then as others have said… you are just stuck grinding paragon anyways… so now you don’t even look at loot, you just mass clear rifts over and over not even checking drops? That sounds fun.

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I didn’t say near perfect I said well geared vs perfect.

Edit: this is why I said this will vastly depend on what we define as “good gear” or “well geared” etc

Perhaps an example of good ancients vs primals might be in order. I’ll use my Witch Doctor - IDoNotPlayWD - as an example because she has only a single primal item (her pants) and all the rest are ancient items. So…

With her existing Ancient Gear she has…
Corpse Spiders

  • Damage: 154,891,522,407,878
  • DPS: 290,421,604,514,771

If we turn every single piece into Primal Gear she has…
Corpse Spiders

  • Damage: 184,176,440,681,047
  • DPS: 345,330,826,276,964

That’s an increase of 345,330,826,276,964 / 290,421,604,514,771 = 18.9% damage

Now remember that for every GR rank increase, the mobs’ HP increases by 17% cumulatively, i.e. if you go up X ranks, the HP goes up (1.17)^X, and therefore your damage has to rise accordingly in order to continue beating the time.

So, going from 1 primal to 13 primals was worth just over 1 GR level.


I’d be happy if Primals, or Primal Ancients showed with different colors or symbols in the small map or viewport from standard Legendary so I could focus on picking up JUST those items if I am going to be subjugated to repeating the hunt and gather over and over and over and over again. At least it would speed it up, and we could ignore the garbage. oh, and for the love of God, please add a modifier key, or check box, allowing for mass salvage of legendary and set pieces at the smithie. If we have to go through it all, help us speed it up, guys. These are both very small changes that would make life more enjoyable in the dungeons of Hell.

Primals show up in red along with a pentacle for their icon instead of the brown/orange star for legendaries or the green asterisk for set pieces. Primals also create a swirling red mist above themselves though it can sometimes be hard to see among a pile of other items.

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That would really suck, because I really need the weapon I have in seasons, in non seasons. It’s pretty much perfect so if it goes poof I will be super sad.

It’s been known for months that this is going to happen because it was part of the Season 27 patch notes…

Season Theme Details:

  • Angelic Crucibles and Sanctified items can only be acquired in Seasonal play and will not transfer to your non-seasonal character when the season ends.

Yeah I was just hoping the effect would be removed but the item remain intact.

@Saulren My friend, you’ve not been able to grasp my argument at all. Nothing that you said applies in any way.

I just feel like you already answered your own question. The situation you fear my argument is advocating for (it’s not) and want to prevent, already exists.

Gear past a certain point already doesn’t matter. And the example that Meteorblade gave shows you where that point roughly is, the difference between 1 primal and 13 primals is at best 2 GR levels… it’s meaningless!

Whereas paragons and augments already account for the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of your GR progression.

And as for mass clearing rifts and not even checking drops, again, it’s exactly what’s happening now at the point where people have the “good enough” gear, where having full primals would barely be noticeable. People reach that stage of the game very fast, especially in organized 4mans.

Likewise, I did not propose a specific solution. All I asked was that for was that there be a way where we can finally put some of that hard work into PERFECTING the gear set fully, and it is most likely the case that the point where we would be able to do this naturally falls around where it already would make the least difference, which is perfectly fine.

Are you proposing we are able to craft a full set of primals because it doesn’t do that much?

Personally I don’t see a problem with this, even if the price to roll a primal was higher. Even at current price it’s almost 2 primals per roll if you keep the rolled one, so 26 needed to max out a full equipment. That’s actually quite a bit of farming time, not a ton but a good amount of time considering each one will likely have to be rolled multiple times. Idk I think it would be a neat concept.

Plvl just becomes an extra boost at that point while we can max out the builds at a more acceptable timeline.

Also fixes the excitement factor of primal drops to an extent because it’s a chance to roll another perfect gear slot vs oh I already rolled that perfect (insert item here) so 99% chance this primal will be pointless(unless you need to spend the ash on another toon)

Yes, what I want is the introduction of a method that will allow us to obtain a full primal gear set at the appropriate stage of the game, which is probably somewhere around where you’re already wearing full ancients with a few primals and any further gear upgrades provide near-negligible boosts.

Something that is not just mindless grinding for random gear drops and hoping it’s not trash stated.

An example would be a rare upgrade token that starts dropping after you solo clear grift 100 (or whatever high number is considered acceptable), that you can use to upgrade a legendary or ancient to primal without rerolling the item’s stats.

Or a cube recipe that you need to unlock somehow, like with a cube upgrade that drops after clearing a high grift level, that rerolls an item’s stats but keeps its status as ancient or primal.

Or hell, anything they can think of that’s not just another 1-in-a-billion RNG system, those were just some examples.

At the very least they should baseline allow us to reroll primary and secondary stats separately of each other at the enchant lady, just this change alone would be amazing.

Again, you want to remove what little RNG is left from what is supposed to be a loot based game. All you’re left with is mindless paragon grinding. The RNG factor has been reduced over and over and now the state of the game is essentially “won” within a matter of hours aside from paragon. I still play, but each season nets less and less accomplishment because frankly it just keeps getting easier. People lobbying for EVEN easier aspects of the game contribute to its diminished enjoyment. You want full primals? Just spend a few hours on the PTR rerolling all your gear. It’s not that hard. Then what? See how much fun it is not caring about ANYTHING that drops.

How is this hard to understand?

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Times change as the game goes on. You’ve have 28 seasons of dimishing rng. Turns out most people don’t like rng for some reason. A single season of having perfects isn’t going to ruin your enjoyment of the game, sounds like it was ruing 26 seasons or so ago.

As somebody who plays competitive RTS and Fighting games, let me assure you, PVE-focused ARPGs, especially those with relative quintuple-digit percentage power scaling are definitely not something I would consider “difficult” by any stretch.

RNG-type rewards are like fast food, very cheap, addictive ways to trigger a dopamine hit, with proggressively more rapid-onset diminishing returns. This form of pseudo-satisfaction is exactly why you feel each season is progressively less rewarding, not because the game “keeps getting easier”, but because it’s the same RNG loop with yet another temporary gimmick slapped on, to make the loop more bearable for the Nth time. And every season the gimmick needs to cut some RNG and be bigger and flashier then the last to keep you mesmerized.

All games that base their reward structure on mostly or purely RNG inevitably fail. Because this approach doesn’t take into account healthy human behaviour. People like to gamble a bit here and there, but there’s good reason it’s classified as a mental disorder after a point. What normal healthy humans like is to work for something and be certain that they will be rewarded for their work. One of the big reasons Diablo 3 was such a resounding failure prior to Reaper or Souls was precisely because it had extreme RNG. Blizzard completely misunderstood what made Diablo 2 popular, just as you do when you consider “loot-based” an actual genre.

Developers like to talk about how they want RNG to feel exciting, to capture that “wonderful” feeling of “getting that rare item”, but this has never been the case for ARPGs and is ultimately a fool’s errand because:

  1. human psychology has a negativity bias, a negative event has double the mental impact towards negative as opposed to a positive effect towards positive.
  2. everybody has a limit of how much negativity they can take, and the more RNG there is, the faster you hit the diminishing return limit. When you’re riding the disappointment rollercoaster that is ARPG trash item spam, you’re hitting that limit real quick.
  3. when you’re at the limit and an item finally drops after you’ve farmed for it for some time, your reaction is NOT “oh my god I can’t believe it dropped I’m so happy!” but “ugh, it finally dropped, I’m glad that’s over!”. It’s not jubilation, it’s relief. Relief that you’re done subjecting yourself to that particular grind pain and can go actually go about enjoying your character’s build.
  4. not to mention that you might not even get relief because it’s most likely a trash variant, and even when it’s not the resulting positive feeling is always mildly to severely blunted because of RNG stat ranges.
  5. devs tried to mitigate this, but instead of properly fixing it, their solution was to flood you with more trash or give you yet another RNG system on top (like with upgrading items making them reroll stats and removing their ancient/primal status) which just makes it even worse.

The game would benefit a lot more from PERMANENT additions to its gameplay loop and adding goals that aren’t RNG-based, and what I’m proposing is exactly that and it’s such a minor change to boot. It’s important for you to realize, I’m not even proposing it at the expense of the main RNG system, in fact it’s probably not even going to impact it at all. Because by the time you’re in a position to get full perfect primals everywhere, you were done with gearing realistically for quite some time. You already have 1 or 2 primals and the rest are ancients with decent rolls, and going from that to full primals is at best 2 GRs worth of progression as Meteorblade pointed out.

The absolute vast majority of people stop hunting for gear when they reach this point, not just because the game shifts to paragon/augment hunting but because even if they wanted to get full primals with perfect stats, the amount of work required is completely unrealistic and the payout unrewarding. Asking for a way to shift from some of that paragon/augment farming into more primals and optimal stats for them will only help.

Looking at your character right now, you are definitely at the point where you’re done with gearing for sure, if not the season entirely. Are you telling me if this option to reliably get optimal stated primals in all slots existed, you wouldn’t use it? Considering this would give you more play time, which was your primary concern to begin with?


That’s a very long explanation of why you don’t like RNG games. Maybe you should find a different game to play.
Edit: The answer to your question is, no. I currently have over 1200 bounty mats and 5k forgotten souls on my character from farming holiday gifts. I haven’t bothered spending them because there’s no need to gear my character further. At this point, all that would really make a difference is thousands of paragon. D3 doesn’t have a lot to offer beyond the RNG hunt, so trying to shorten it or eliminate it all together is asinine.