I don’t know about removing levels completely. What I would like to see is the removal of item level requirements and just use attribute requirements. I still think you can give attribute points and skill points on level, its convenient and flexible. Otherwise you would random skill tome drops or quest rewards or something which could be fine but I prefer levels. Could totally get rid of paragon levels though. I’m done with infinite leveling experience.
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D3 was essentially levelless and I presume it didn’t work since they added an infinite-leveling system on top of it in the end.
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You can do the same things without levels, but i am not strongly against them: but i think it could be done in a more organic way, like i said before, getting xp for the things you use (for example, if you use only fireball, you get better with that skill, but not the others).
It doesn’t need to be only with items, you can get strongger by fighting and doing quests and other things. I think that global levels arn’t really needed but a form of xp could be important to improve the character.
Well, if there are too powerful stuff that could indicate a problem with the items. But you can always limit by having requierements to equip the item.
Don’t have levels doesn’t mean to have all unlocked (for example, skills) from the start.
I like that.
Hm
Most ppl here are kinda ranting about attribute requs
I think, level requs are kinda more balanced
Imagine you want to build your character kinda based, balanced out
Will you always be undergeared then?
Yes, maybe level requirements could be more balanced, or at least easier to balance. But level requirements are there just to limit what you can use, but it isn’t a desicion making thing. While attribute requirements create a desicion: i must spend on this stat to equip an item but i give up to something else, or i don’t equip this item but spend on that other stat.
I think that attribute requirements could be done similar to the new powers. For example, a chain armor could require 50 str and gives 100 defense, and a plate require 100 str and gives 200 defense. Now, with the classic requirement you can’t equip the plate if have 50 str but with this idea of make it flexible, you would be able to equip the plate but the item would only give you 100 defense (instead of 200).
- Chain Armor: 100 defense (requires 50 str)
- Plate Armor: 100 defense (requires 50 str), 200 defense (requires 100 str)
I did this with the defense bcs it would be the affix those items would have in common, but could be done like other things like chain armor giving less defense against piercing and plate giving more if have enough stat but if don’t then would get the chain armor piercing defense.
Yea i get you but i also dont like the idea to level an attribute just to equip something aka D2
And dex, int, for leather and robes is also kinda questionable
So idk…for weapons it fits better and it works like in gothic f.e.
Sure, i agree, maybe depending on the str you have, the armor could give less movement speed penalty or something like that.
I like more the idea of have some kind of penalty than be able to equip it or not.
If you base on realism - You need a certain amount of strength and stamina to wear the heaviest plates but at a cost of dexterity and it reduces your overall stamina, plus don’t try and sneak up an anything.
Lighter mails and such really are much less a burden. They still are a burden in hot weather but less than full plate… But none of these type of games base on too much realism, it would ruin the fun.
Edit: I forgot reduced visibility in the crazy great helms they wore. Ornate gothic plate got popular (for the wealthy) around 1490 in Germany.
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Well, the idea of reduce the speed is bcs there is no stamina, if there was stamina, then that would be better. The other idea about reduce the armor wouldn’t be realistic but it is like “you can’t use plate so it will be treated as a chain mail until you have enough attributes”
To me no leveling just means play D3 from level 70, so just start at endgame, it’s a broken pencil pointless.
What is needed is just like greater rift make the regular rifts, bounties, etc. limitless levels so game is more than a grind to get to higher greater rifts. This is the excuse for cheaters say is it is such a bore. Be nice to go on public and see some of them frequent flyers that everyone has to keep up with slowed down a bit by doing a level 25 regular rift.
Instead of asking for things like this, that affect the entire game for everyone - I think it is better to just let Blizzard do their thing and appreciate the end product. Whatever they do.
It is OK to ask for optional systems, like SSF option, or offline more, or online but private mode. Options that are opt-in and affect only the person who chooses them. That kind of feedback is OK.
But any feedback that goes like “Make this! Make that! What you are planning sucks!” - I just can’t get behind. Things that affect literally everyone, like no levelling systems, or punishing PVP, or open trade.
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Can’t say that I agree, on any one point. I enjoy leveling and building a character as I go. The solution to me is to make leveling more of a journey like in D1, and less of a rat race than D2 and D3 (though D2 was bette than D3 in this regard).
I appreciate the thought tho
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What’s next, remove items because it comes down to sets only ?
Diablo 3 does not represent well what is arpg game about. It is not only slasher so let’s not dump down whole franchise to it.
It require leveling and a journey, a challenging and meaningful one. That’s the core of every game, look how diablo 2 wasn’t even designed to have endgame, and surprise, surprise ? People played it over and over.
Why ?
Because there is a game in the game.
Surprise, surprise?
Hundreds of thousands of people play Diablo 3 every season over and over, even 8 years after release.
Because there’s actually much more of a game within this game, than in Diablo 2 when you were reduced to doing hundreds of Baal runs that were no different from each other and only became easier and more boring as you geared up.
And it is so sucessful in the time of MUCH harder competition - from random games competing for your time because there’re more of the good ones and MUCH more of good ones that are session based and can suck up thousands of hours of time… And don’t forget direct competitors - other ARPG’s and looter-shooters especially, that target the same entertainment triggers as Diablo.
And STILL people play it.
Yes, some few people still play D2 as well - but they are few and far between. It’s like being a B&W retro-movie connoisseur - you get bragging rights, and in your circle you’re the coolest guy in the room - but 9 out of 10 of your friends don’t even understand what you’re on about and prefer to sign off your fascination as a weird quirk.
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The Secret World launched without levels and classes and it didn’t work for them. So they had to relaunch as Secret World Legends adding in base classes and levels. I don’t think it would work for a Diablo game.
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20 years ago Playing Quake 3 and UT took a small amount of skill to be good. ARPGs are not something that takes skill. Even in PvP(unless you’re bad at character builds I guess).
I have to disagree. Something that I really enjoyed from previous games i played was the character development, not just the gear upgrade. In ragnarok (mmorpg) you get to start as a novice, then say you choose swordman, then you get another choice and you can be paladin or knight… always leaning new skills. That’s exciting. Even cooler i once PVPed with someone who conciously decided to remain swordman but focused on gearing up and he really rocked. So the two game style could even coexist, but you still need level progression. Levels make sense in the same way you gain belts in martial arts… you develop and perfect your skills, you grow as a fighter. Levers do make a lot of sense in my opinion and I wouldn’t want to play a game in which only gear makes you what you are. I can give you a race car, it doesn’t make you a racer until you develop your skills over hours of practice. Also in the Diablo universe, when your gear breaks down, if only gear scales your power, you’re screwed. As much as I like to find a great weapon, spending hundreads of hours to improve gear is just grinding and that’s just an empty game design imo.
I agree that D3 is even more a game in a game but I don’t think it makes it more exciting. There’s a lot of people still playing D2 out there, not just a few weirdos. Yes end game gets boring in D2 but I find it equally boring in D3 even though it’s possible to adjust difficulty. What’s boring is doing the same thing over and over again, and to me it’s independent of the difficulty level. What really kills D3 is the lack of character progression. Even in D2 when you got bumped and rushed straight to hell you still had to go through the journey of slowly gearing up while leveling. In D3 from 0-60 it’s just crap. Then it’s grind for gear with the best roll. At least when you got a shako in D2 you could be happy about it, now it’s like, oh it’s not ancient, oh i need both area dmg, socket and crit chance on it… feels like you never reach a state of contentment, some feeling I got playing D2 even though I’m not max level and even though every piece of gear is not perfection. Thank good for trade in D2 though because gearing up would otherwise be a nightmare.
Diablo IV: Remove the level systems
i wouldn’t play it, as a casual, midlevel mobblaster (Endless Fun from day one). 