Probably an unpopular opinion however, I propose to remove “leveling” meaning: No levels, No paragons, just itemization and skills. (character skills + player skill)
Better itemization without levels is possible. I find levelling to be pointless outside of “time played = power” I’d rather a system that let’s you find better items with bonus stats/skills etc. than a level system that enables power creep at end-game.
To anyone who says “levelling is a way of measuring progression”, I say “kind of”
I think progression can be measured in “completion” rather than a level system.
Completion of things like key’d dungeons, bosses, PvP, exploration can give you better items that show your progression and because there are no levels you can equip these items to enhance your characters. Like special belts that give you belt inventory to hold more stuff; a permanent scroll of Identify that automatically identifies items as you pick them up; special charms that add magic find bonuses. I have a lot of ideas; I like to get a discussion going.
The levels to 40 are created with the idea to make the game more newcomer friendlier.
From what I read somewhere about Diablo 4, their idea is that we level once to 40 and in future Seasons we would be able to start directly from level 40 with our NS heroes reborn at Season.
The paragon-like system is good when finite since it lowers the variance and this is useful for the time frame between the mid and early late game.
Other than that leveling doesn’t introduce much sense related to power, but it could related to character identity. I wrote about this in my previous feedback post.
yea thats a very uncommon stand
levels are a tool, to guild the character through the story in a certain speed and give you an option to adapt to harder enemies, when you cant manage, to deafeat them by skill, while also preventing you, from rushing through the story, too fast
also, its the easies way, to work with skill and attribute systems and give the player the freedom to play freestyle and still being able to progress, if they dont want to blindly follow the stories red line
A way to improve/ modify the skills with skill points would be nice. But it could be done without levels too.
Can add requierements to the items or simply make the best items to drop from strong monsters that we can’t kill at the beggining.
I think they are making it that the monsters level when we level. In this case leveling is to unlock skill/stats (ofc it is used for other things to, like block access to stuff).
You might like this:
I think they could leave levels to give us points for skills and stats but separate them form other stuffs.
An alternative, and this is what i would like for a game, would be to have a progression of skills and stats without character levels, but with independant levels for those things.
Want to level a skill? use it, you get xp using that skill and the skill become strongger. If they still want to win points in another way, they can give them, and can even have “check points” in which you can’t progress until spend a point to unlock the next tier for that skill.
Want to rise your str? use melee weapons and get become stronger and more proficient with that specific weapon.
For this idea, you get better with each thing you use, but not with what you don’t.
Levels and class based systems work in tandem with one another.
A system without leveling is not for a class based system. It is for a classless system. One that is entirely skill based only, which further exacerbates “time played = power:”
A class & level system can restrict that completely by enabling an end to power = time played.
Sounds like he wants isometric arcade shooter, like the old Gauntlet or Smash-TV arcade games.
I mean, I enjoy games like that too once in a while, but I don’t play ARPG games to play bullet-hell style arcade games.
What we need in Diablo IV is for the levelling process to be relevent to the game. in Diablo 3, the entire process of going from 1-69 is irrelevant. Nothing you do in those levels matter at all. Gear is trivial and replaced within a couple of levels of finding it, skills are easily swapped and always run at maximum power. The problem with D3 is that basically the game doesn’t actually start until you reach level 70.
That is not the case in any other ARPG I have played. The levelling process has always felt relevant to the game play experience in the others, and things done in the earlier levels in terms of skill selection, growth of your abilities, maybe special gear or items found can have impact in the endgame.
They need to make levelling feel relevant and impactful on the game, and not just a chore.
the same is true for items. there is an element of chance involved, but overall, thats what it does in the end.
leveling is part of the immersion/fantasy for games like diablo (rpgs in general). they symbolize character growth independent of outside factors, for example your sorcerer becoming better at casting that particular skill, your barbarian becoming better at that particular way of swinging its weapons, etc, regardless of the items they are wearing.
plus, leveling is a more reliable source of power, as it not dependent on being lucky. the core game-loop of arpgs (and hence their potential) is that you have some action, most probably working towards some progression point. the progression point then alters the mechanics of the action, which incentivizes you to at least try it out a bit, which again puts you on the path of having more action towards the next progression point. leveling ensures that players remain hooked on this loop even if they are having an unlucky day.
Portrait Frames could be a great way to show off progression, there could even be craftable ones that use higher end gears to make so the sacrifice has to be made to earn them- ps. i love the discussion here, let’s hear more ideas Also “leveling” can exist as a cosmetic only thing meaning that when you level it just resets your cooldowns and fills your health if your missing any;
I prefer the level system because I enjoy watching my character progress/get stronger/learn new skills. I just think there should be more to it than getting a 5-10 minute “rush” from someone
Levels help provide a foundation for building a character in ARPGs. If building a character is done solely through itemization, you’ve essentially just created an elaborate loot box simulator.
I agree with several of the above, You have to have levels to guide thru the story and to have limits on giving the most powerful stuff right away to a new player. We get plenty of posts already of people not knowing how to even play their class or build cause they get PL’ed to 70 without realizing what a skill does. Leveling is ment to introduce a player to new spells and abilities gradually and more advanced concepts as they rise in level.
The amount of levels is arbitrary but as well there needs to be some form of “MINOR” advancement when at max level. D3’s paragon system was supposed to provide this but it fell flat due to limits on points and the strength a point provided due to the low caps. If there was 30 different affixes to chose from and main stat only provided say 2 per point, it would of been so much better.
If not by alternate advancement then gear would need to be very widley varied where its very hard to get top affix rolls on an item and the min rolls are vastly different then the max rolls.