I think this talent tree is still lacking; I like the direction it’s heading, but there’s more ground to cover. A lot of the choices on this tree aren’t real choices. I think they’re just linear progression and I think we still need more depth on this tree to allow for extended re-playability.
I understand the developers are likely working under a constrained set of parameters; but maybe it’s worth revisiting those parameters if the feedback is unanimous
It would open up a lot of possibility in creative development on the tree and make the game feel more like the ARPG / CRPG that the franchise originally was
I appreciate the update; but it would be great to get a deeper tree
Not bad. Nothing to really complain about this time. It’s nice to see you are listening to the fan base. Keep this eery feeling going. There’s nothing like a dark Diablo game. Can’t wait to see the update on the power system. Very good to hear that a players damage output won’t mainly come from their items too.
I guess I don’t see how the tree you showed is really much different than the original design. Sure, I have to admit, it looks really cool but it’s still a virtually linear path. I could go along with it if the example you showed with the Sorceress’ enchantment system can radically change skills. However, then I guess I don’t see why instead of having two systems you don’t merge them so that each skill has it’s own tree.
Without seeing what all those skills and nodes on the tree you showed are, it’s hard to give good feedback. They really just look like skills and plus to stats to hit harder. Maybe I’m wrong.
Unfortunately it is all still way too limited in scope. A meaningful progression system in terms of skills should provide relatively easy access to all the abilities and then ask you to specialize or broaden your scope. At no point should you be spending skill points to unlock basic skills.
On a per skill basis you should see something like this, using Ball Lightning as example:
Choice between area of effect or concentrated damage.
Choice between multiple projectiles over single projectile damage.
Choice of utility (buffs or debuffs) over damage.
Choice of relinquishing control over damage.
Choice of synergy instead of elemental focus/advanced skill versions.
Choice of sustained damage over burst.
Choice of chained abilities versus piercing abilities.
And so on. Meaningful choices that impact the behavior of the abilities, and it should be absurdly hard to turn classes into one button heroes as a result.
The player’s overarching passive tree should facilitate those choices and choices in itemization by adding multipliers to sustainability, survivability, evasion, mitigation, buffs, debuffs, diversification, specialization and so on.
What you’ve shown here so far is cute, or would be in 2010 because it’s incredibly dated.
Their skill system isn’t lacking atm. The “link” between particular branches/nodes could be done with the legendary items.
They very well know the goal is to have greater build variety and that’s why they are changing the A/D/A powers. Designing the skill system properly depends on many other things that aren’t shown in the article.
I like the tree. It’s cool how you have a certain amount of branches with different things, and then you acquire nodes to start progressing the roots below. The tree artwork looks amazing. Great work!
I like that it’s straightforward. The question is; are the choices permanent? Do I need to create a new character in order to develop a new branch? It might be nice to have a few quests give a redo option if it’s permanent. I would rather have it be permanent.
The new skill options sound and look very neat. I like how you have something different and unique that the other classes such as the barbarian won’t have.
Yeah, that would be my preference too.
Though I think both can work.
But a tree for each skill is likely a lot easier to balance. So you have a limited amount of points per skill.
I dont care much. But yeah, a bit silly.
Completely agreed.
It is a first step, but so far it is basically just the Blizzcon system in a new UI that makes it look like it has more depth.
But it looks like the only depth is hunting the passive points in multiple branches. Still no choices in the skill upgrades it seems.
I think it can work fine, it sure is the biggest jump in meaningful choices the game has seen so far.
But yeah, I too think it is better with different point systems for
Skills
Skill customization/upgrades
Passives
Much easier to balance. Much easier to expand separate systems with more skills, upgrades and passives.
Indeed. Looks like linear branches. What is the point then?
We need meaningful choices, otherwise the Blizzcon UI was easier to read, and with the same lack of depth.
It’s reflective of what feels like a trend here. “You don’t like what we are doing? How about we keep doing it but change how we explain it and tell you it’s something different.”
Like their explanation for the angelic stuff. They say they listened. They agree with us, but they still like the concept of it functionality. So it sounds like they are just trying to figure out how to retool the same thing and call it something else.
I honestly really love the way the Skill Tree is heading. Especially esthetically. I’ve read a lot of comments about people saying it needs more depth but at the same time it’s not a finalized vision.
But as a huge fan of the Diablo series, especially Diablo 2, in most builds we centered around 1 or 2 skills with a few support skills trickled in here and there. This tree system already seems to have more depth when compared to the options of Diablo 2. (Maybe like Diablo2 we can spend several points into the same skill for a max of 5) But i agree that in todays standards, you need a little more depth.
I also want to say as someone who has played many ARPGs, that striking a healthy balance is key. I know a lot of people like to compare Diablo to POE but i cant iterate enough how much I do not want a tree that is as massive as POE. I dont want to play a game where I need a 3rd party program to calculate the best path through the skill tree because it would be nearly impossible to do it on my own without making SEVERAL mistakes. POE biggest strength is also it’s biggest weakness.
But I just want to say again, that I absolutely love the skill tree so far and it’s already a massive step foward when you are comparing to Diablo 3. I also love that we cant have all skills unlocked at end game. This is a very promising direction.
I think this is definitely moving in the right direction. I know people are crapping on it right away, but give some credit to the devs for moving this away from what was previously presented. The Great: No more maxing out skill tree. The Good: There is an implemented branching system. The Bad: Passives are tied in with skills in the linear branch. I still have questions regarding the direction of re-specs. I am more for none or something you work towards, but would like to hear where this is at.
On the Demonic ancestral and angelic topic. Why not make these stats that are allocated by the player? Replace diablo 2’s STR DEX VIT Magic allocation with something of this nature. You can keep the stats on the armor/wep as they are replacing the STR DEX VIT Magic. This will prevent Vit dumping or main stat dumping.
Love the progress and direction the team is going.
I am not a game developer, but I am amazed how you guys can make something simple be complex.
About gear and character power… GO BACK TO D2 AND SEE WHAT WORKED!
What I remember is… You have a skill tree, you haver your status points.
Your gear would raise that status or the level of your skills.
WHY think the same way that made a poor itemnization from D3 (angelic/demonic/ancestral)?
Here some example:
Boots : + 2 int + 3 stamina + 3 skill points on fire wall
Hands: + 2 int + 2 stamina + 2 skill points on fire ball
Helmet: +3 int + 4 stamina + 1 skill point on fire barrier
2 items of set: + 1% fire dmg
3 items of set: Fire aura does dmg around you
And make a higher level version of that:
Boots : + 4 int + 4 stamina + 5 skill points on fire wall
Hands: + 3 int + 2 stamina + 3 skill points on fire ball
Helmet: +5 int + 4 stamina + 2 skill point on fire barrier
2 items of set: + 1.5% fire dmg
3 items of set: Fire aura does dmg around you
Edit 1: as I read more the post…
Don’t limit our skill points, make it like the logarithmic function (log X) so you can keep putting points but each point after some number it loses it’s effectiveness
Edit 2:
Plz, no more 6 skills (1 2 3 4 + Right Button Left Button)
Surprise us =)
Edit 3:
About end game… I really liked about raising the difficulty and raising the rewards with torments on D3, but I don’t think that would be good to create a community that help each other. So would be nice to have a limited difficulty instead of infinity difficulty. I also think that would increase the replay of the game…
omg extremaly good update, new skill tree is fantastic but you have to work on details, like why are fire and cold skills in same line? dunno, maybe it have to go this way but I dont understand XD
enchantments are really good idea
make way to respec points on tree, but not in just 1 click, players should know that they decisions are important, but they can cancel it if they do some work.
I think it definitely is lacking.
As they say, they want to put the players power more into the character.
The sorceress enchantment system is excellent, because it isnt overwhelming for new players, but increases the depth of build making.
The same should be done for talents - instead of making a single “massive” (as they call it) and overwhelming tree that in the end still lacks choices, they should split the talents into multiple trees.
Imo 1 mid sized tree for every ability, affinity, element or even the A/D/A powers would be better than what we’ve seen here. Because in itself its not overwhelming, easy to learn but still hard to master.
Just make many small systems that synergize really well and create depth this way is what they should be doing imo.
Problem is, a lot of stuff in D2 didnt work. So they still need to fill out the gaps and come up with new stuff as replacements.
Looking at D2 for inspiration is not the way forward.
Look at Last Epoch, Wolcen, PoE.
Yes, all these games have their own problems. Which is why you should look for inspiration, rather than to copy them.
I very much like that.
Separating fire, frost etc. skills would just make the whole thing even less interesting and more linear.
Everything should be mixed up.
Just to repeat myself, make it closer to a web, not a tree with linear branches.
Yeah, it is hard to judge if that is just graphical, or they really do merge. I very much hope they do. But they need to do it way more.
So, another topic I missed.
Legendaries. Blizzard seem to say they want to make legendaries less impactful.
That seems like the wrong lesson here.
Make character powers more impactful. Dont make legendary powers less impactful. At least not much less.
Aiming for a legendary power to have the same power as 2-3 other affixes was a nobe goal (albeit it seems a bit unrealistic). Just keep the crazy multipliers down.
flame on