Diablo IV Quarterly Update - Q3 September 2020

Diablo IV End Game Progression System Idea

When reaching the end game your character can learn to record combinations of skill actions and moves. So for example while moving away from a group of monsters you quickly record a dash forward, a use of your first skill, then the use of your second skill and a dash back. Now you can activate the recorded actions and moves and they are performed twice as fast as usual and can be used twice before you need to record again.

The end game progression system could consist partly around this recording system, where you can unlock skills to use with the recording system, further increase the speed at which the actions and moves are performed and increase the number of times you can activate it before needing to record again.

In such a recording system thinking ahead is rewarded.
It will be easy to learn and hard to master.
Also there will be a high coolness factor when you finally master this.

My main concerns are:

  • Where will you put the recording button on a console controller?
  • How hard will it be to keep doing your regular moves / positioning while recording a set of moves/actions?
  • Will it be simple enough to use?
  • Will it be fun?
  • Will it fit in what Diablo 2 and Diablo 3 fans expect from Diablo IV?

Final note: this system might fit best with the Assassin class.

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I completely agree that POE is the superior game to D3 (although D3 had its moments), however I don’t think POE is perfect, and D4 now has the potential to be that.

The skill gems from POE level up with you, so there’s no real choice as you level up. In D2 for example each time you levelled up you had 1 skill point which you had to maximise the use of.
The nice part about POE is the linking of skill gems which allow you be creative in your skill design.

I don’t think it’s asking much. It’s their business and if they want to make a game that will last, there should be a way to personalize your skills in more depth. I don’t like poe system and I don’t want it to be like that in d4.

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I’m not telling you to follow POE completely. However, the biggest advantage of POE play is its very high compatibility. There are no restrictions on playing games as long as you ignore the fact that unusual choices are not efficient.

I think D4 has the same direction. Keeping archer players from using double-handed axes or magic wand blocks research for creative ways of play, which is the most important value in the game.

The same is true of choosing skill properties. Of course, POE has an overly sophisticated system. All jobs share the same skill distribution tree with only different starting points. Of course, the difficulties that arise from the creation of a vast amount of skill sets are obvious. However, considering the difficulties you face in servicing the game to the far future, the initial design of the game is well worth the trouble.

The RPG game continues its service, and when it is updated several times, it is difficult to balance it. It would be okay if you pinpoint the most important point each time to solve the overpower once started, but almost all games do not find the core cause of the imbalance and solve it through small and many updates.

D3’s specific character-only legendary item is an example. Whenever I devise an item that enhances a special skill, I am concerned about how strong the synergy will be due to the combination with the previous item, and I am concerned about giving a very powerful mechanism only to a specific job. Game system designers will have to predict all scenarios before the user can play, and will try to solve the problem by’constraining the player’s behavior patterns’ when unexpected balance imbalances occur. But players are disappointed whenever they are so constrained. It must have been a cherished enjoyment of the player’s creativity, even if the game designer had not discovered it though. Since the balance imbalance has to be resolved, even if the purpose of the current update was correct, when the time to do the next update comes, it will return with greater concern, like Jenga, who accumulated a mistake from the start. Single update to solve the problem works as a temporary solution, but it is not temporary, it is permanent. Even if I want to revert, I have been making another wrong update because of the wrong parts from the beginning, and I have to redesign the classification to fix them all. But you can’t do such a big task every time at the risk of failure.

Let me give you one more example. CHAOS ONLINE, a Korean MOBA (AOS) game derived from DOTA allstar, has worked tirelessly to balance the two completely separated pools. But as a result, no matter how hard they tried, they couldn’t approach to the perfection compared to a simple method of sharing the same pool of options. DOTA2 and LEAGUE OF LEGENDS are such methods. Of course, you won’t need to worry about this if you succeed in rebalancing between completely separated systems through detailed work every time. But it is actually impossible. There have been so many failures in the past.

Diablo 4 has the advantage of taking the very core and very interesting art concept of the blood pattern from the beginning. I don’t understand why the skill tree must be in the form of a tree. Without separating the passive skill of the root and the active skill of the branch, I think that the passive can be recreated to suit the player’s convenience by connecting the mechanisms between the active skills.

Skill Tree

Visually, the passive nodes fit in perfectly with the exceptional art. The skill nodes look a bit like they are photoshopped on top of the tree. You could make the skill nodes round, a bit smaller, more in the same color palette as the tree and show the bright colored version when hovering over a skill node.

Another thought is to use the current background for the passive skills only.

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Thank you for sharing the development with us Blizzard!

I would like to give my feedback on one of the new system additions that I love:

Monster families.

When I first read about monster families I immediately thought “That is really awesome. I want my character to be known as The cannibal slayer”

So it came to my mind: Why not use the families for more character individualization instead of only in combat?

Like the more cannibals you kill throughout the game the higer the chances are you may find magic/rare/legendary items that have affixes dedicated specifically to slay this family much easier. Even going so far that some items/banners/titles/skins etc. can only be awarded to the ones that really focused on killing members of one monster family.

This system could also be used for endgame content with exclusive quests and so on.

Maybe this system could even replace the critisized Ancestral/Demonic/Angelic Powers system because you could change your items in respect of the areas you are going to play.

So… Please let my barbarian have the title: “Cannibal Slayer of the Fractured Peaks” :sunglasses:

I was wondering if they will make us replay the story again after we finish the game.

In Diablo 2 they changed the colors of bosses and stats, in Diablo 3 they just changed the stats only.

It whould be cool if this time they change more, like abilities are more powerfull, atack speed, movement speed etc.

That moment when you see a Dark Mage summoning a powerful Demon (in your head you are like he could not do that before) or casting a massive fireball instead of a regular one.

The option to complete the game again but the Demons are on steroids, that whould be fun.

Torment difficulty is lazy game design, here we added another Torment level, monster have 1 more trilion hp and hit 10 times harder, enjoy!

2 Likes

Yes a more complex game would be nice.

But there is one thing that bothers me a lot more. The Shared World. Please optional On/off and everything is fine like in PoE.
But I don`t buy this game if it hasn’t this option. I want to play games for myself and to have a good SP experience. I really don’t want to see other people in games (sometimes MP with friends, but most of the time SP) .

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I hope they don’t go backwards to the replay the whole game but it’s a bit harder with different items and enemy affixes. They did mention bringing adventure mode forward in some form, so I’ll bet we just have to complete the campaign once per account to be able to skip it. However, if they keep level scaling and a go anywhere approach, you could start off in a different zone and do a different path each time to mix things up.

Thanks for the update and its freekn awesome that you’re listening to us, the fans :stuck_out_tongue:

Demonic/Angelic/Ancestal power where to simple before, but the concept of these powers seem nice.

and the skilltree well it looks nice ill agree to that, but thats about it where are the choices, like theres all this talk about it being “Open World” but why is the Skill tree so linier.

I made a post about how To mix these to elements to bring something exciting to discover on the skilltree and i think you could add some super cool effects to it :smiley:

Itemization:
Somehow we need a meaning for the different drops so yea the Magic items should be speciel in some way, and higher affix Rolls could be one way to go… or more socked slots so this can use the new Rune system.

the different items like
WHITES = runewordable, 0 - 5 soc
MAGIC = 1 - 2 affixes no effect standard, 0 - 4 soc
RARES = 3 - 4 affixes no effect standard, 0 - 2 soc
RUNEWORD = no affixes but powerful effects.
SETS = Rares with effect or stat boost starting from 2 set colected, 0 - 1 soc
UNIQUE = Rares with legendary effect, 0 - 1 soc
LEGENDARY = 4 Affixes with 1 - 2 effecs
MYSTIC = CAN ONLY CARY ONE super rare effect + affixes

Anyways looking forward to the cristmas update :smiley: keep up the good work :smiley:

Exactly.

PoE has shown that modular RPG design, i.e. non-skill specific systems, avoid many if not most of the traditional pitfalls associated with skill specific talent systems. It’s more efficient to develop, more adaptable, and easier to expand upon.

For example, if a game is going to have 50 skills that have AoE as part of their mechanics then instead of designing 50 skill specific augmentations of increasing the size of the AoE the developers could design a system that has 1 shared AoE increasing augmentation. Any new AoE skill would already be supported by the system of shared augmentations instead of needing an entire array of choices specifically developed for it. The developers then have more time to design more interesting choices rather than replicating the same fundamental choice multiple times so that parody exists across the skills.

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First of all, I want to thank the dev team for the quarterly updates and sharing their thoughts and ideas with us long before release. Through that approach we as a community might be able to tell you, what we want to play. And you even might make such a game… ;D

I have two major points:

Give us control over our skills back! You talk about customisation, let us customise our skills!

Dibalo 3 has 5 runes per skill. Why the step back now?

Last Epoch has whole skill trees per Skill.

Why Blizzard, a multibillion dollar company shouldn’t be able to do the same, is beyond me.

Give us 20 active skills with 5-10 passives each. Some passives may be mutually exclusive, some skills don’t even have passives.

I want to decide if I want one big fireball or ten small ones, or a fire whip, a fire nova, maybe fire mushrooms sprouting from the earth.

Be creative with the passives, one extra charge for static discharge? Cheap, boring, lazy. (I know its work in progress etc. but why present such a boring example for the update?)

If you need ideas you can start a community contest to design skill variants.

Stop consolidating stats. The end of that is gear score or light/Power (see Destiny). We don’t want wo go that way.

Ps.: Please, think about the font. Its just soo bland. MrLamaSc mentions it in nearly every D4 video :slight_smile:

7 Likes

That is true, and it works great.
But… imo it is also less interesting than upgrades designed specifically for each skill. And might be harder to balance.
If you have different upgrades for each skill, one upgrade might give 10% increased AoE radius for skill A, but another gives 30% upgrade for skill B, which might be better balance than just giving them both 10% in a generic upgrade system. Or you can specialize even further, with stuff such as “50 larger AoE radius, 33% less dmg”

Besides, we already have another non-skill specific progression system; items. Seems unnecessary to have the same upgrade system twice.

I’d much rather see this result in Diablo 4:

  1. Itemization gets more non-skill specific. Basically all normal item affixes, and most legendary affixes should work with multiple skills at the same time (no more skill specific sets and legendaries as D3 have them). This comes with another huge benefit as well for item hunting, by reducing RNG, when more items have wider usage.
  2. Move all the skill specific stuff to a skill upgrade/modification system.
    Here you can select whatever upgrades you want (within the skill point cap), so unlike itemization that specialization has no RNG downsides.
4 Likes

TBH I’d like them to go even one step further. D3 did this in a very bad way but at least tried somewhat, so now you could just very well combine the best of both worlds and come up with a new “design philosophy” for legendaries… THAT WAY you end up with items like this:

Blue item: +2 to skill X
Rare item: +10-15% insert stat of skills (could be DoT damage, DoT duration, AoE radius, DoA cast range, and so on, could be chance to proc a hit effect)
Legendary item ? - something very cool/specific/versatile but without the stats abovementioned, i.e. something like this:

  • DoA skills have 30% radius reduced but last until actively dealing damage to target

  • Summons/Traps have half of your hit-effect chance to do a DoT attack. DoT attacks deal extra damage and last longer by 8% for every summon or trap active you have.

  • All your hit effects become root effects lasting 2 seconds. If your current HP is lower than 35% of MAX hp then that duration increases up to 5

And e.t.c… Think it’s a really nice way to DIFFERENTIATE item categories, which would be based around:

  • Want one skill maximized in power ?, pick blue
  • Want skill types get a stat (potentially more than 1 stat) upgrade ?, pick rare
  • Want skills altered in such a way to provide more synergy or versatility of gameplay ?, pick a legendary

I mean D3 did quite well around legendaries IMO (well the first time RoS came out at last), the problem was that they intended these things to be specific for only 1 skill, but weren’t THAT bad… It’s like a year-two later when the “stuff” around GRs and X000% incrase of skill damage increases happened… :stuck_out_tongue:

Think THIS is a nice way to make every kind of stuff matter… As for whites ?, (until figure out something better) just make them levelable… :slight_smile:

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A feel like people are judging the entire system from the meteor example without looking at the ball lightning one. Yes, the random meteor is lame and boring. I totally agree with that, but the other one is interesting, depending on which ways we can trigger crackling energy. We know we can trigger with crits, but other skills might have enhancements to create them as well, giving us more options.

Personally, in the end, if I was to give a message, it would be to give us more of ball lighting style passives and less of meteor. But of course, that is just my opinion.

3 Likes

I don’t know if im the only one but sometimes when i found a Unique item in Diablo 2 back in the days i whould make a class just for that item alone and build around it to see how it works.

I never had that feeling in Diablo 3 and that is one of the reason Diablo 2 lasted so many years.

I’m not against respec skills or stats but make it in a way that every skill or stats respec will cost you some rare diamond or something.

6 Likes

they can just make less items drop

Yeah. This is where replayabilty in an A-RPG should come from tbh.
Instead of endless scaling and repetitive “GRift” runs.

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My first design was with global modifiers
But I soon realized that interesting modifiers like crackling energy, etc. won’t be able to work
Modifiers like “additional projectile” would have a completely different and overpowered effect on things like meteor while on blizzard you wouldn’t even notice it
It’s easier to balance and make interesting modifiers if you design them for the skills specifically

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You had to complete 3x D2’s story for the three difficulties. There’s no such thing in D3 and I don’t think there should be one in D4 either. Ideally you don’t repeat the content but just never stop “discovering the game”. I just hope there’s more to discover than whatever content was added in D3 like the ruins of sechon or whatever it’s called and randomised rifts. World events and evolution/progression would be awesome. Other compelling activities like maybe crafting material that’s harder to get but yielding better results, invasions and attacks to stop and the likes, changing the world according to you being successful or not (or paying attention to it or not).