I dont like hit chances tbh. Too much unnecessary combat RNG that is completely binary (hit or miss).
Just balance the game around 100% hit chance as the base. Of course specific enemies could have mechanics that goes against that; like a monster with a shield, that blocks dmg if you attack from the front, since that would not be RNG.
If you want stuff that is “kinda like” hit chance (which I think there should be), without as much binary RNG, then build it into an absorption/resistance system (where part of your hit might be mitigated, but never 100%), or similar.
Of course, other than the base attack hitting, there are proc chances, like CC effects, dots, debuffs/buffs etc. which kinda are hit chances to. That can work fine, and is more similar to an absorb/resist system, since at least the ability do something when it hits, even if the proc does not go off. And you are not working from a standard hit chance on all your skills in such a system, but individual proc chances on each skill, which can be fine-tuned.
Ill say this again, if you want a more challenging and tactical game then add hit chance and hit recovery back, or else you are just asking the devs to lower the difficulty of the game for you only because you are asking for convenience or rather said “be happy cos all your hits are effortlessly a 100% hit” again.
From all ARPGs i have tried i find D2 mechanics to be the most challenging tbh, and even PoE carried most of them with it.
https:// pathofexile.gamepedia .com/Accuracy
You should try D2 for yourself again with PoD mod and notice how the game is harder and challenging than D3 or other modern ARPGs.
Depends on the POV and personal preference, but a complex design seems to appeal more to masses than a pure simple foreseeable reflex philosphy in design, similar to shooters but even shooters you have to act quick on the spot and you dont have a 3 second reaction time to dodge/evade attacks like it is in D3.
Diablo 1,2 and PoE are a great example how the replayability work in these games, because they use these core fundamental mechanics of the ARPG genre and Diablo 1 giving birth to them.
D3 fluidity of combat is good i agree but i would have loved rather a similar D1/D2 combat instead of a complely different combat inspired by another of their games instead (yes i mean WoW here) which imho does not fit into Diablo… and im not the only one with this opinion.
Id rather have them had create a new completely creative new experience for D3 (instead of using WoW mechanics) like you suggested in the past posts for D4.
Sorry. I tend to scroll passed the stickies unless I’m looking for something specific from them. I’m copy/pasting from a thread I created in response to the quarterly update.
Thread Title = “What I want from D4”
Thread Link = https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/d3/t/what-i-want-from-d4/13302
Additional Comments
I’m going to be putting my gut reaction to the screen shots and visuals in this section. Keep in mind that my comments may come across as raw/harsh but is not a criticism of people on the D4 team.
I dislike the art style of the D4 work in progress screen shots. What I really like is D3’s modern, high quality, polished art with its rich color. Many of the armors look very good in D3. Only WoW’s graphics surpass D3. I would rate D3’s graphics at very good and WoW’s graphics at “breath takingly exceptional”. This does not mean that D4 should copy/paste WoW graphics style as uniqueness of the D4 product matters. If I wanted to look at WoW graphics all day I would just start up a sub. or watch WoW youtube videos. I hope you guys can present better D4 stuff in upcoming quarterly updates.
The Inventory Screen Shot
The inventory boxes in the screen shot look like they were drawn on some faded or time-worn, water stained parchment. The armor icons look like a throw back to 1990’s hobo graphics but rendered in high rez. The foreground/background combo of the armor icons is just terrible to look at. The weapon icons suffer the same, but looks like a slightly more detailed version of a stick figure. Please use a much better font/color comb. The stat icons are flat, two-tone renderings that look very similar to the ugly, flat 2-D design of Windows 10, which by the way looks like Windows 3.11. Don’t follow Windows 10 or Win 3.11.
The Druid Character Model
The druid looks like a terrible. Obese hobo heroes are not inspiring. You might want to return to the D3 style inventory screen where you don’t render the character, but put the gear icons and stats as the center focus.
Character Models In General
In Diablo 3, I really abhor the male witch doctor character model. I’ve expressed this in the old forums ages ago. What I dislike is the elderly, pot-bellied, Parkinson’s disease ridden representation. Edited for cleanliness and to not offend anyone.
What is important about the D3 witch doctor’s representation in relation to D4?
There are no dark skinned characters or character models with African features in D4 thus far. D4 should not represent European and Asian archetypes exclusively. Please consider male and female models for each class as well as African, Native American, and south Asian archetypes.
Cave Action Bar Screen Shot
The stained-glass action bar icons look dumb down. They are too close to being two-toned images. Two-tone icons can be employed as a simplified representation possibly for performance reasons. However, is the rendering of these small visual elements really going to dramatically impact performance? I doubt that is the case. Again I like the D3 rich color icons. However, better action bar icons could be developed and still be unique to D4. Please keep the action bar in the middle.
D4 Skills Page and Bat-Wing Controller
I really dislike the cheap grid view of the skills. Please do not follow mobile grid view icon UI’s. Its ugly and over simplified. Please don’t do this. The same faded parchment icon art suffers the same as the inventory gear/weapons icons.
The D4 dev team really needs to look at and draw ideas from POE’s passive skill map. The skills/talents view presented in the work in progress is way too shallow. You guys need to put some meat on the proverbial bone in this area. D4 should not be shallow. It should have breath in the number of options and depth in details and how those options can be combined. I’m pretty certain the PC player base wants lots of path in customization and character development areas.
D4 PC should have controller support, but please do not dumb down or homogenize the UI to cater to controllers. This really rubs me raw and I’m speaking from a developer/user perspectives. Directional joy-pad should be enough to move selection between UI elements. Controller support should mostly be keybinding layout driven.
Couch Co-Op UI Please do not do this. Do not dumb down or homogenize the PC game to cater to consoles/mobile. Let the console version have its own UI. D4 PC does not need couch Co-Op. I know that some people use TVs for their display but that does not mean that we are all using our PC’s from a couch with a bat-wing controller in our hands. The vast majority of PC users are PC monitor/flat screen, with keyboard and mouse… not bat-wing controller or mobile tablet finger-tap/finger-swipe types. I have an expensive, noisy, heavy-click keyboard, a 24 inch panel (144 hz), and a relatively simple Microsoft wheel mouse connected to my PC.
Please do not attempt to condition the player base into console UI’s and controller inputs. I am highly resistant both. I don’t play on consoles or use bat-wing controllers because the UI’s and inputs are very annoying. When I say annoying I mean it would be akin to forcing me to play a foreign language D3 (other than English).
Please remove all console UI stuff from the PC game and its design. Let D4 PC be the default base, that is based around monitor/keyboard/mouse (with bat-wing controller additional keybinding layouts), and let console be a derivative of that base. Let the console UI live only in the console version, and add/subtract from the D4 PC base.
My thread’s contents below
++++++++++++++++++++++
I read the recent quarterly update. Let me be clear with a disclaimer before I make my point.
DISCLAIMER
If you like Windows then enjoy Windows. There is no point to arguing about it. I am not here to convert anyone.
The Windows version of D4 will be produced by default. No one is arguing against it and my desires/views will not limit or detract from the Windows product.
If you disagree with my views that is fine, but if you voice your views please be polite and keep any troll offerings to yourself. I’m not interested in jousting with trolls in this thread.
If you post you opposing views please back up your claims by posting factual sources.
If I don’t make my desires known to Blizzard then I will have no right or reason to complain later.
The developers have asked for feed back and this thread is feed back.
This post/thread is not a waste of time. It is feed back. Nothing is set in stone when it comes to software.
I want full support if I buy the D4 product and I’m not committing to buying the product before I have a chance the evaluate the final product.
What I want from Diablo 4:
A Linux (PC Linux) native 64-bit D4 game client that does not have emulation or translation layer middle ware.
A native 64-bit Mac game client.
Both the Linux and Mac game clients have full parity with the Windows version of the D4 game and full end-user support like the Windows version.
All 3 versions (Win/Linux/Mac) can seamlessly play together.
All 3 versions (Win/Linux/Mac) are developed simultaneously and released on the same day.
I want off-line and LAN modes included in the game so that I am not shackled to b net servers and I can escape their latency issues (and Blizzard will have latency issues).
Off-line and LAN modes should have full access to content. No more gating content behind seasons or some equivalent mechanic to seasons.
Off-line and LAN characters would be stored locally on the user’s hard drive and not have any interaction with the online aspect of the game.
Mod support so that the player community can make external storage and character management tools (ex: GoMule). I would be happy if modding were limited to just the ability to external storage and character management like what GoMule provides.
PC Linux disto list:
What I don’t care for or about:
Dueling/PvP… add this feature to the game but make it so that I can fully ignore the feature without any effort.
Full open trade… This is one of the main reasons why I want off-line and LAN modes.
Loot boxes… I have zero interest in this.
Windows { insert version }
Consoles
MMO features… I want ARPG not MMO-lite.
What I might take a limited interest in:
MTX for online mode… As long is there are no pay to Win schemes.
As many of you may know I’ve lost interest in Windows. I would rather game it up on Linux natively. I don’t run WINE/Proton. I don’t run any emulation or translation layer software on Linux otherwise I would be running a PS-4 emulator and playing PS-4 games on Linux. Playing PS-4 games on Linux via emulator would be in full hijack mode. However, I have enough money to buy the games I want to play so there is no point in me pirating software. I don’t like consoles either. Please don’t bother suggesting emulation or console options. If I buy the game I want to have full end-user support on Linux.
IMO, Windows sucks and has been at suck status for many years. I only have Windows to access my Blizzard games. I have several Linux native, Vulkan enabled, modern, high quality, polished games on Steam. The moment I can play my Blizzard games natively on Linux is the day that Windows would cease to exist on my SSD. If my PoV runs contrary to your PoV on Windows then scroll up and re-read my disclaimer slowly.
All 3 versions (Win/Linux/Mac) are developed simultaneously and released on the same day.
The above statement would strongly suggest that it would force multi-platform design decisions as a priority at a early point in the development of the game. It would be wise decision to target Vulkan so that the 3 versions will have high quality graphics and rendering that are consistent and developed once (vs 3x rendering engines). If the platform specific details of are abstracted from the other game code then building the game for any of the 3 platforms will be come simpler/cleaner. This does not introduce cost prohibitive requirements in terms of money or time. Here is a slightly more visual description:
[Linux Kernel + Vulkan]
^ ^ ^
[Platform Specific Blizzard Game Code Abstracts]
^ ^ ^
[Game Code that does not care about platform/graphics API]
The ^ ^ ^ symbols denote communication paths and dependency. The above is not rocket science and is a common technique used by developers.
Outside of Photoshop and Adobe’s other graphics/movie editing software, I can do everything that I want/need to on Linux. I have regular PC equipment. A Ryzen CPU, a nVidia graphics card, g.Skill RAM, and an Asus motherboard.
Yes, it is more realistic, but it feels terrible to play with chances to miss.
I personally hated it in D2 that I sometimes had to put points into DEX or equip things like this Angelic Raiment Set ring + amulet just to be able to hit enemies properly.
I am fine if in D4 most enemies can be hit a 100% of the time and they also can have armor which reduces their incoming damage, and I am even okay with some of them having an innate chance to dodge and maybe even an elite affix that gives enemies +20-30% dodge chance (as long as this doesn’t get too high), but basing it on your own chance to hit does not make it feel good.
If feels like you are wasting points or affixes on items just for something that should come by its own.
My suggestion for replacing Attack Rating would be an affix like ‘Chance to Overpower’, which gives you a chance that your attack can not be blocked, dodged or parried, etc and deals a bit more damage.
Ah, I haven’t seen that yet. I have just seen that a stagger meter is in D4, but so far I have not heard of the idea (neither from the devs, nor the community) to put a minor version of this on placer characters as a replacement for FHR/FBR.
You are the first one that I here talking about this.
Example: Bracers, capes, trinkets, charms
for additional items. Stop taking away from your games and add to them. No one is going to keep buying the dumbed down games. Sorry I’m not impressed… same old Activision blizzard tactics removing little things to make game designing faster and easier. But the little things over time ruin great games like diablo 1 and 2. Your old fans remember. I hope to see more item slots to come. Impress me and prove me wrong.
Pretty cool. There is specifically one picture that caught my eye: “A Battle for Survival.”
The reason why it caught my eye is that the colors seem accurate. Everything in the picture looks like it belongs. The models and the world should blend seemlessly together and this picture actually sort of has that which is nice. I want the game to look like a drone is flying above the action - that level of realism. I want to hear screams of death when a man or woman dies on the battle field. I love that Blizzard is taking a step in the direction of Diablo II’s theme and art style. I think at first people at Blizzard thought when fans said they wanted gritty, that thought that meant grainy. We’re looking for bleak realism. We want to feel isolated and underpowered. Look at the progression of Diablo II. You kind of suck for a real long time (unless you’ve played it over and over). Difficulty isn’t just how much health a mob has, its also their mechanics and how much damage they do. We want that ‘tough love’ the developers gave us with the butcher in Diablo 1 and literally all the bosses in Diablo 2. Some of the bosses in Diablo 3 were cool too but the idea of the instances with phases irked me. If there are phases, they should be seamless. I think the threshhold for difficulty should be like how Diablo 2 was. Difficult alone, more difficult with more people, but through good team effort -easier. I don’t know, I have a lot of thoughts about D4. I remember when I posted way back that Diablo should be like Dark Souls on the forums and saw that at some point you tried to make a Diablo Dark Souls - my message got lost in the mix. I meant Isometric Diablo with Dark Souls style approach to bleak and grittiness with complex boss mechanics. If you’re not careful, you should die a lot in Diablo. It’s not supposed to be a walk in the park. The game should be trying to kick your butt.
Add blocking and dodging. Blocking should be based on your characters class and ability to block and dodging should be based on the same thing essentially but not be superhuman - tether the classes/characters to reality and you’ll get a game where people care about every +1 damage.
Great to here from the development team. I’ve really enjoyed reading the updates, it keeps me engaged with the games hype and renews my excitement each time. I loved reading about the lore and seeing the artwork from the cannibals tribe. I think the artwork is amazing and would love to keep seeing more, even if that doesnt become the final designs of said characters, your artists’ work should be showcased not just in the final product!
Another thing I’d love to see would be maybe some possible mechanics of the game you’ve been working on or considering. Speaking of, I enjoy that you explain the thinking and process behind the UI development, I like reading how you’ve come to certain conclusions, or when you ask us for our thoughts to aid your decision.
As far as something else I’d love to here about, just some of the development teams favorite things you’ve been working on (without too many spoilers)
I guess I will have to get use to quoting the list below.
I have no idea what you are doing wrong. I’ve run nvidia drivers across 5 different nVidia cards across more than 15 different distros.of Linux. nVidia drivers have been quite solid for several years. You would have to provide full details about:
your PC hardware setup
nVidia driver version
distro and version
approximately when this happened
details about what went wrong or didn’t work
You have an unsubstantiated claim, which amounts to FUD. It is no different than me saying nvidia drivers are faulty in Windows and not provide details to substantiate that claim.
I would not ask you to bet. A PC Linux version is within their grasp. Even PoE devs realize that there is a strong opportunity once they embraced Vulkan.
When the driver had a bug, it took a few months (iirc year+ for one bug) to fix.
We (small pharma research company) had to use the Qudro FX series of cards for the 3pin miniDIN output to support 3D visualization of protiens (ca SARS)
Eventually, we moved from StereoGraphics ($1000) glasses to the nVidea ($150) glasses. IIRC - there were a few bugs with the usb adapter at first.
I still remember the rendering glitch the one patch had. But only because the CEO was showing off “we can do things faster/cheaper because we’re running linux [vs SGI Octanes]” when the 3D rendering of a protein went wonky. (Not a fun day)
Maybe it was the early days
Maybe it was the stereo visualization
Maybe its my (opposite of rose-tinted) glasses
But the bugs didn’t get fix as fast as i thought they would. I doubt a game company would want to support that type of platform.
I’m liking everything I’m seeing. I started D3 on PC at release and played a ton, finished inferno before the largest nerfs, etc. It ended up feeling far more satisfying for me because I didn’t have to pay as much attention to the one thing that is sure to take my mind out of the action in an RPG: too much time dealing with inventory management. I also have the problem of not being in love with attack and move being the same button, which made PS4 and Switch feel better at times. I’m used to it, but there’s more than one ARPG where attacking an enemy when I meant to move has lost me a hardcore character. I also really like that PC will have controller support, because, while I will still play with a mouse, I have problems with wrist and hand pain using a mouse/keyboard for extended periods and really like the option for using a controller when I don’t need the precision of a mouse.
I love all the thought that’s going into customization options, but I think it’d be even better if you looked to WoW to see how user built UIs have allowed players to choose their own way to play. I think allowing non-intrusive add-ons would help the game a lot. Some of the D2 overhauls vastly improved the experience and UI. Unless it’s a thing that will be in a constant state of development after release, UI seems like one of those things where you can’t know what is “right” until you know how the majority of your actual players use and react to it.
You do realize SARS was 2002-2004. 16-18 years have passed since then. I’m glad that you brought it up though. First, nVidia drivers are proprietary so any bugs/glitches in them are the responsibility of nVidia. The same would be true on the Windows side. Second, the glasses represent proprietary hardware that most likely has a proprietary drivers, which again belong to the manufacturer. Lastly, it would not be fair to judge the Linux of now and the last 10 years, based on the Linux of the 1990’s.
In short, what you described is not a Linux problem it would be driver and hardware manufacturer problem and would still be the case on the Windows side.
You know it’s a balance, how much is too much when it comes to item slots. 20? Would you like 30? Doesnt sound like fun to me. I’ve been playing wolcen and it’s fun for sure. I am also someone who deeply values depth and meaningful choices. I mean D3 had very fun game play but everything else was not so good.
I’ve been thinking about it and you know wolcen could probably lose a few item slots and I wouldn’t notice. It might even make the item slots I have more valuable. I mean 2 shoulders seems extreme and leads to some busy work really. I dont neccesarily mind it. However to be honest I actually might like having just a few less item slots. Maybe 12.
Theres Maine where making meaningful choices on your gear can become a little bit of a chore. Again I dont neccesarily mind it but I could find myself enjoying a few less spots. I’m surprised I’m thinking this way but there it is.
