I’m definitely late to the conversation but I thought I’d throw my two cents into the diablo 4 discussions.
First off anything expressed in this, probably overly long, post is my opinion. Any critiques or comments aren’t aimed to offend anyone and very well might be unresearched, incorrect or just dumb.
Secondly I did not attend Blizzcon nor have I been able to play Diablo 4 so all my comments and suggestions are based on things I’ve either watched or read online.
Lastly I understand that Diablo 4 is still in the very early stages of development and a lot can change so these are just thoughts or reactions of what has been presented so far.
Also I know a lot of this has been mentioned by other people but at this point the more feedback and more people that are saying the same things might help the developers with certain design decisions.
Just a note that I mostly play Diablo 3 so a lot of my comments will be built around that. (and no I don’t think they should make D4 like D3) I’ve played Diablo 2 (long ago) and have played a handful of other ARPGs; Path of Exile, Torchlight 2, Grim Dawn, Lost Ark so there will probably be some comparisons around them as well.
I’ve divided my comments to topics so it’s not just a wall of text.
Visuals - The look of D4 is great so far in both theme and graphics. The design and feel seem very focused and create a great atmosphere.
Gameplay - The gameplay seems tight and responsive and this has been echoed by many people who were able to play the demo.
Paragon - I personally dislike the Paragon system but understand giving players something for progressing past level cap. If there is gonna be a Paragon system I hope it is capped. If it is infinite, like in D3, that makes it feel very unrewarding and unbalanced.
Potions - Consumable potions are back and I think that is fine but please consider not bring mana potions or having a large variety of potions into the mix. Having to fill ones inventory with potions just to override the ebb and flow of gameplay of building mana to spend it seems clunky and boring.
World Bosses - I think this can be a really fun feature. I think it’d be good to be saved for endgame or peppered in periodically during the main campaign.
Monetization - If it is for cosmetics or even stash tabs sure, why not?
Trading - Unlimited tradable items - great
One time tradable items - sure
Untrable items - I can’t see a winning argument for having a trading system and then making certain items not fit into that system.
Inventory - I think it’s so much nicer that all items take up the same space. I always hated tetris-ing my inventory to try and pick up one more item, see Path of Exile and Diablo 2. The division of equipment, utility, etc seems like a nice way to organize your inventory but we will have to see how it all works when picking up many items.
Equipment - I actually like that there are fewer item slots (ie: no belt, no shoulders, no bracers) and feel that 10 slots (12 for the barb) should be more than enough to make a solid build. A lot of people want the belt piece back but I feel that is what pants became.
Endgame - This is a heavy and debated topic. It seems that players want more than just harder dungeons (rifts/grifts). Hopefully they’ll look towards other games end content to figure out a good mix of different tasks to do.
I think D3’s bounties are a cool idea but are badly executed. If they felt more like side quests and less about speeding through content to get the bounty cache they could add some interesting gameplay/story.
Lost Ark also has some cool end game ”themed” dungeons that have multiple parts to them. Giving dungeons more mechanics or puzzles to complete instead of just speeding through and killing things might be an interesting avenue to go down.
Maps - I’m always curious why the player had to uncover the map to each dungeon they progress through. I get if there is a time element built in that making sure if you are going down the correct path (greater rifts) adds to the discovery. But even if a map is randomly generated it seems weird that you can’t see the path to take. I know that dungeons are gonna have seamless level transitions but I still feel having map reveal seems like an old and stale mechanic. I am fine with it for discovering the main campaign map for the first time.
Rune words - As with a lot of other things we haven’t seen too much on these but I think the condition and effect idea of runes seems neat if not a bit limited. I agree with others that it’d be cool to have a bit more complexity for these. Maybe having multiple sockets, (I think 6 like in Path of Exile seems like a bit too many) like having 3 sockets seems like it could be more dynamic that way you could have one condition that triggers two effects or vice versa. But again these seem like they are replacing the gem system from D3 and it already seems like a more interesting system.
PVP - I personally don’t like PVP but I completely understand people wanting it. I just hope that whatever approach they have doesn’t affect the balance of the PVE content. (like the constant battle of balance between PVP and PVE Division games go through.)
Mounts - yeah they look like they are fun, especially with the dismount into battle ability but hopefully that doesn’t take away the use of town portals or quick travel.
Classes
Druid - was definitely the standout from the demo. His gameplay and skills are obviously the newest and most fresh feeling since versions of Barbarian and Sorceress (Wizard) have been in Diablo 3.
Barbarian - I think the arsenal mechanic might be enough to change up this class from Diablo 3 but I don’t play much Barb so here is hoping it’s enough of a change.
Sorceress - A lot of people seemed underwhelmed with the Sorceress which I understand that she feels too similar to the Wizard class in D3. She might end up being the only ranged class which could give her enough variation from the other classes.
Other classes - There are rumors that the Paladin and Amazon are coming back which I think could be fun new versions of classic classes. Hopefully the Paladin will be different enough from the Crusader (which I play a lot of in D3) to keep in with the newer/fresh feel of all the other classes in Diablo 4.
I’ve also heard that maybe the Necromancer or Demon Hunter-esc classes could also be in D4 and would hope that they too are different enough from their D3 counterparts.
I main Monk in D3 and would be eager to see a class like that, maybe the Assassin, but understand if that class doesn’t make the cut this time around.
If Blizzard was going in bold directions I think a Samurai class would be pretty neat but I understand that might not fit into the lore or Diablo feel enough.
Skills - There were only 6 skills (per class) shown off so there isn’t much to comment on but each character having 25 or so skills sounds right. It seems each class has 3 to 4 subsets of skills.
Druid - The 4 subsets of skills for the Druid consisted of Shapeshift, Storm Magic, Earth Magic and Companion which could make for a lot of fun combos. I saw only one skill that did poison and think it’d be cool to include more.
Barbarian - The 4 subsets of skills for the Barbarian were Warlord, Berserker, Shout and Ancient (which I only saw one skill for). Not sure I thematically understand the difference between the Warlord and Berserker skills are? (Might be something that isn’t fully worked out.)
I think some cleaning up is also needed in the “requires” section of the skills. Maybe colorcoat them for the “dual wield”, “two-handed slash”, “two-handed bludgeon” and general “two-handed”.
It also seems that skills that utilize slash weapons add bleed and skills with bludgeon add stun but it didn’t seem consistent across all skills.
Sorceress - The 3 subsets of skills for the Sorceress were Fire, Ice and Lightning.
I think it’d be cool to change her skill mechanic so that you can assign any of the three elements (fire, ice, lightning) to each skill. Maybe each skill has a default element and depending on what you change the element to, the power would adjust. (ie: Fireball’s default is fire and does 80-100 dam but if you change it to lightning or ice it only does 70-90 dam but it fits better with your lightning or ice build/gear) This could give her some more flexibility to builds and skill combinations.
The freeze and chill mechanics for cold skills makes me wish lightning and fire skills also had two sub mechanics. I know fire skills burn and lightning skills might stun and can spread but hopefully this is developed more and/or explained better.
Lastly, it seems that the Sorceress doesn’t have any skills that generate mana which might be due to her being the only ranged class but seems a bit unbalanced. Maybe they are considering items or talents to help balance this out.
General - I’ve heard more discussions concerning Cost Skills vs Cooldown Skills. I know that Path of Exile and D2 uses only Cost Skills and Lost Ark only has Cooldown Skills (which I guess is pretty standard for MMOs). I personally like the combination of both and think that it really boils down to balance.
The other general thought about skills are how builds are assembled. Usually a build consists of 1 generator skill, 1 main spender skill, 1 movement skill, 2 or 3 support skills and 1 ultimate skill. (granted there are a lot of variants of build setups)
With the new dodge ability put into Diablo 4 I’m not sure if there will be movement skills. But from the initial skills shown it seems like there is a lot more focus on attacks. Maybe they are hoping to have the items and talents be more of support for builds.
There is also talk of high cost for respec-ing or not allowing the player to unlock all skills and talents. I think a high cost for respec-ing is fine but I think whatever option allows players to experiment with more builds seems more rewarding and fun. It sounds frustrating to spend a lot of time going down a skill path or putting points into talents only to find out the skill/talent you were aiming for isn’t that fun and that there is a better build out there for you.
Talents - Similar to the skills there were only a handful of talents active during the demo. While I agree the talent trees seem a bit sparse I also feel they shouldn’t go in the direction of Path of Exile or pad things out with nodes that add “+5 to STR” or general stats.
There is also the worry that the trees are too linear, which I don’t think is a big issue if the talents are meant to accompany the skills or adjust gameplay. I feel like the talents are an upgrade or hybrid version of the passive skills and runes from D3.
A cool approach might be to have as many trees as there are sub-mechanics for skills ie: for the Druid a Shapeshift, Storm Magic, Earth Magic and Companion tree and maybe a General tree that doesn’t affect specific skills or does blanketed upgrade/adjustments.
For the most part it seems like the talents are going this route but they are laid out in a kind of a basic progression. If there were 4 different talent trees to choose from at the beginning that then branched out as you progress that might give enough choice that players are looking for.
Itemization - probably the most debated topic to come out of the D4 demo and rightly so considering one of the main focuses of playing a Diablo game is the loot. Since there seems like a lot to discuss I’ll break it down into sections.
Power Balance - As mentioned by many others, and also brought up in the System Design post, items shouldn’t be the main source of power. Examples of people in D3 having one piece of their armor break and then they end up doing no damage seems like the power isn’t properly balanced. I’m also not sure why items need durability, is it mainly to be a coinsink? There are also stories of people going through content naked with only a weapon in D2 or early D3 and still feeling powerful. Mainly that having no gear just made the content take longer to get through.
Ancients - yep either change them significantly or just get rid of them. One possible suggestion is to make them like the mythic item, but they only have 2 unique affixes and you can only equip 2 at a time. Kind of like a stepping stone that they are similar power to a mythic but take up more spots? Again, just a quick idea.
Common, Magic, Rare - While I agree that it sucks when you get to level cap in D3 all your gear is pretty much useless I’m also not sure I understand the outcry of making common (white) items more important. I always saw them as a slot filler until a magic or rare dropped. How long you should have an item before it becomes useless seems like an equally important design choice to power balance.
Main stat - a lot of people seem to hate main stat being on items, especially after it has been more simplified. While I agree that the “big number good, small number bad” is a lazy and boring design perspective I still think you can implement a main stat on items and make it seem balanced.
One suggestion is that all items could have main stat be on them but as the rarity goes up the main stat number doesn’t increase because the higher the rarity introduces affixes.
IE: there is level 2 axe, the common ver has 50 dam, a magic ver has 45 dam but 1 affix and rare ver has 40 dam but 2 affixes. With this design it also make common items a bit more important if you just want to search out raw power but will be lacking in a fully balanced build.
Also it seemed a bit weird that a lot of items had both att and def on them. I think if all 5 armor pieces were only def stat and everything else was only att stat (maybe not a shield off hand) that might also balance items and builds.
Affixes - as mentioned by many others just slapping damage multipliers on gear is also a lazy and boring design choice. I also feel that there was an issue in D3 where most build would just suggest rolling Crit Dam, Crit chance and Cooldown on all your pieces which seems like an unbalanced approach to making a build. Obviously this can be remedied with balancing but another idea is to make certain affixes not available on all item pieces. D3 does this now but I feel it’s still unbalanced especially with rings and amulets.
I do like that there are only a couple of affixes per item. In Path of Exile a rare item can have 6 affixes in addition to a main one and for some reason, maybe it’s how they are laid out or how they are worded, but the wall of text makes me glaze over it and I just blindly equip it if it has more affixes (or the right slots) than the current item I am using. This is unfun to me to have to read into so much just to know if a new item is good or not.
Requirements - I think the requirement mechanic of D2 and Path of Exile where you need certain STR or INT to equip a weapon is clunky and not enjoyable. I know putting a level requirement to an item is similar but having to adjust character stats just to equip a new item to see if it is better than your current one is annoying. While if you just need to get to a certain level to use an item it seems like it can be a bit more rewarding.
Sets - hopefully they don’t go the route of the sets in D3. I think the big problem with D3 sets is the crazy damage multiplier numbers for the set abilities. Also how many pieces are needed to unlock a full set, or maybe how many other items in addition to the sets that are needed to make a full build. If sets in D4 were 2-3 pieces and were a stepping stone between rare and legendaries that seems more interesting.
Drop rates - definitely having legendaries, sets, and mythics rain from the sky like in D3 makes them seem less and less rewarding/exciting but I’m not sure never finding an item is that fun either. But that can be somewhat balanced by having a robust trading system that can let players decide how much time they want to put in to search for items.
Again I know a lot of other people are making similar comments and suggestions but hopefully there is something through all these ramblings that sounds like a good idea/suggestion.
Thanks
