Diablo 4 needs to be more challenging

[Kilometer-11340]

@Gr8Hornytoad-1880

D3 is child’s play compared to PoE, the real successor to D2.

- YouTube

[anon88344807]

@Aax-2257

In d3 if you think the game is too easy - turn up the difficulty. 1-2 torment levels up and you WILL see challenging gameplay that requires awareness and skill. But people don’t do that. They play on safe difficulties where they one-shot elites, and then complain that it is easy.
When confronted on this point, they usually invent excuses that d3 difficulty is boring, that it undermines their feel of progress, etc. Etc…
While in reality it is them who chooses to play on easy mode and then pretend on forums how they are really hardcore and it’s Blizzard’s fault the game is too easy.

Same with D2, zerging bosses by going out to town 50 times

Again, THAT is part of the whole difficulty issue as well, IF you allow the pace of the game to be controlled exclusively by players you create “Slow advance” type of difficulty

Games should have a way to prevent the “safe exits” at some points but not overdo the “fighting aspect in quantity” that would far too much resources therefore lead to “lots of refills” (slow advance)

The difficulty instead should be STRATEGIC, not overdo mobs (d3), not overbuff them (d2, slow progress), instead make them SMARTER and have the game have some ways (especially at higher level areas) prevent you porting away from trouble in the town and force you fight (could be mobs heal back up, could be portal is disallowed, i.e. on CD after a usage, could be portal is chargeable by mob killing… you name it)

BUT again, IMO it IS important to address the type of difficulty to be challenging, NOT brick wall and NOT slow advance, but CHALLENGING… The first mistake is when you allow 100% the game pace to be controlled by the player, the second mistake is when you make mobs not killable within reasonable amount of time, here’s an example

When RoS got first time released I was undergeared, the Urzael fight lasted 55 min (yes, I was itching my mouse finger with the other, keyboard hand lol) but DIDN’T lose a single time… The Malthael fight however lasted some 30 mins BUT lost to him like 10 times

I’d like to see more of the 2nd and less of the 1st, THAT is a more challenging/dynamic approach, smaller fights that disallow you control the pace of the game rather than long-lasting hitting until your weapon is “out of durability” or ones that are “brick wall” but can zerg damage at a time

[Aax-2257]

@anon88344807

The difficulty instead should be STRATEGIC, not overdo mobs (d3), not overbuff them (d2, slow progress), instead make them SMARTER

You are pretty much changing genre tropes at this point.

I don’t mean to say that your idea is BAD - not at all. If properly executed, I would play such a game.
But…
This is not what I want from Diablo.

See, I want it so the games exist without strategic combat. Games where you cut through hordes of monsters that mindlessly try to overwhelm you by numbers. Games where combat is an equivalent of a stat-based meat grinder.

Such games NEED to exist, just for the sake of diversity.
And like it or not, this is the niche that Diablo occupies.

So, in my opinion, it should stay like that. It should stay simple, because that’s the road it gained popularity and that’s what it excells in.

Changing gameplay to a strategic or reactionary combat - is something that some other game should do. Diablo should stay Diablo.

[aeligos-1349]

Good luck convincing the marketing dept. They run the show, it would seem.

[anon88344807]

@Aax-2257

I want it so the games exist without strategic combat. Games where you cut through hordes of monsters that mindlessly try to overwhelm you by numbers. Games where combat is an equivalent of a stat-based meat grinder.

IDK what others would say about this but to me THAT is the definition of a mobile game

[Kiadaw-2262]

PoE, where meme builds can one-shot most mobs at highest tiers & the best builds are simplify one with biggest AoE and move speed.

Do not confuse complexity for challange.

You said D3 is simple, okay, but then pull out the most shallow arpg currently in the market, when it comes to challenge. Some of the bosses are tough for sure, but even so, avoiding one shot bullet storm damage is not depth, just reflexs.

[SWarrior-2403]

@Orrion-1999

(And cry when triple immunities show up, but that’s beside the point).

And pretty much stick to your opinion when i arguably explained ways to deal with triple immunities. Very nice.

[D4] Bring back Horror - step away from predictability - embrace the darkness with random encounters

Agreed, levels must be randomized with different kind of traps, similar to shrines that you think would be useful but they are actually negative, same can be said similar with exploding barrels or (stronger) skelletons just spawning after you open sarcophagus or barrels. Calling “dark” and unpredictdable approaches random junk, thats nice of you. I asked for random encounters, random triggering effects of traps, not random monster effects like in D2 and D3 where you can just read the affixes…

[Aax-2257]

@anon88344807

IDK what others would say about this but to me THAT is the definition of a mobile game

The definition of a mobile game - is a game played on mobile device (smartphone or tablet)

That’s it.

There are no genre definitions, constraints or requirements that put them apart.

A game is a game. It can be fun or not fun. Amlnd platform has 0 things to do with it.

[anon88344807]

Ok, I got it, you like survival rounds. Though that’s not THAT bad it’s not something you can make work in a game where the player itself decides how deep/far in that survive round mode they go into (THAT, IMO is a problem that might be addressed somewhat)

I reacted to how you described it though,… I think

[Vendetta-1168]

I agree with you. PoE boss fight (even low tier boss) and mechanics is on an another level. Not even comparable to D3. The only D3 fight that could look like a PoE boss is Belial. The rest of D3 boss have like 1-2 mechanics ? And pretty boring one… I hope there will be some really hard solo boss with many phases and stuff to learn.

[Gr8Hornytoad-1880]

@Kiadaw-2262

You said D3 is simple, okay, but then pull out the most shallow arpg currently in the market,

L.O.L. Fanboys sure see the mirage in the desert.

[spirited-2519]

@Kiadaw-2262

PoE, where meme builds can one-shot most mobs at highest tiers & the best builds are simplify one with biggest AoE and move speed.

Do not confuse complexity for challange.

You said D3 is simple, okay, but then pull out the most shallow arpg currently in the market, when it comes to challenge. Some of the bosses are tough for sure, but even so, avoiding one shot bullet storm damage is not depth, just reflexs.

1. I didnt say D3 was simple
2. I didnt say anything about challenge

I want depth and customization and choices. Thats it. I get my enjoyment from systems and mechanics and how they interact with one another. PoE offers the most in these aspects. D3 falls short.

Anybody is free to disagree with me there. But you’ll be doing it because of your feelings, and not because of anything factual. Dont waste your time.

[Kiadaw-2262]

Mechcanics are NOT depth. It required only memorise the pattern. They works fine in single palyer game where you fight once, where learning the pattern is part of the experience. In games where you replay multiple times, where you alraedy know the pattern, there is little depth left.

I agree D3 RGs especially are dull & simple with only a few moves & slow as my granny, but PoE is not a really a much good example. Beside some have complain of being not fan of bullet storm gameplay against bosses like shaper & the act 6 boss, & the abyss boss & some others.

[Toy-1123]

Oh god…

Diablo is a dungeon crawler ARPG… It’s not an RTS game. Taking control of game pace away from players, would take a lot of players away from the game. Diablo has always allowed players to control the pace of the game to some extent.

As for difficulty, you have to find the right balance. They can’t cater the difficulty to “hardcore” players without risking losing casual players. Difficulty doesn’t make a game enjoyable. It makes a game frustrating. The more frustration, the fewer players. Comparing to D2, I did find D3 to be considerably easier to work through. In most cases, I was never at risk of dying. In D2, there was always a risk of death in a boss fight. Difficulty should increase as you progress through the game, but not ever mob should pose a risk of imminent death. In the case of D3, I never felt that any mob ever posed a risk of death. In fact, as I progressed through the game, it felt as though things got progressively easier and the risk of death went down.

I did find the story to be lacking a bit. Mostly, it was just too short. More depth needs to be added to the story. The story should justify every action in the game and I don’t feel that to be the case with D3. It feels like the story was more an afterthought than a major part of the game. It’s still an enjoyable game overall, but I hope this gets fixed in D4…

Just my 2 cents…

[Aphandra-2120]

@steelgrim-1529

diablo 3 difficulty was too easy and made the gameplay boring at times where the player mindlessly massacred mobs left and right, clearing dungeon rooms and levels without any real effort.

I think this was a decision made by players.
In D3V I have hit some roadblocks where I couldn’t proceed, so that version did have natural slowdown phases.
In D3 I always decided to play in difficulties which, by the majority of the elite community are considered push, as opposed to their favored mode, farm. In my eyes, the mere presence of “complete all acts in a single hour” or “complete a rift in 2 minutes” is promoting screen clear + unlimited teleport builds & playstyle. Another “proof”, split bounties - being able to complete 4 man content alone is a sign that it’s too easy - or reward scaling is too shallow (it’s worth more to keep playing a more trivial difficulty for multiple bounty chests).

[TrandelElent-1153]

Except for the fact that in PoE you don’t permanently lose your character if they die in HC and you do in D3 lol.

[Warrior-2372]

Nah it should be easier than Diablo 3 normal mode.

My 3 y/o cousin Barb died in act 3 after not moving for 10 minutes.

Coming blizzard, Carter towards the children please.

[Beefhammer-1932]

Meh. Currently progressing with a static shock/holy relic only Templar and pretty much destroying everything in one shot outside of bosses. In act 8 haven’t come across anything I would consider remotely challenging with my one attack spam.

[Beefhammer-1932]

I have to agree with Aphandra here. That was a player’s choice to go that easy if a route. Start the game in T6 with number weapon and a gen of ease and tell me how easy it is. Or for that matter, T1. It’s not a cake walk after a few levels if you are not keeping up with gear. T1 can quickly overwhelm especially if you don’t have 800 paragon or more.

[anon88344807]

My problem with the Diff was HOW they decided to do it

More stats on mobs and “lategame” (i.e. rifts) basically overcrowded places. Nowadays people don’t even kill stuff, instead they pull/gather as much as possible and destroy everything with a single hit

IDK why but that disturbs me for some reason tbh, I’d rather have players fight 5 mobs at a time that are really hard and require a nice mixture of defensive and ofensive abilities to overcome them. Perhaps have some of them give you temporary bonuses to move foward to a new mob group or something like that

IDK it feels quite “meh” tbh, it’s like a “racecar” mode but you’re not even racing anything, just time. Not a fan of that, also feels quite idea-less at it’s character tbh… I mean I don’t quite blame the devs, they filled like 15 holes from D3V into the exp and made things almost work but yeah, wish they DIDN’T rush the “mechanic” of GRs as the late game material

The good news is there’s now a chance at D4 to not repeat that same mistake, hope whatever they come up with (cause it hasn’t been announced YET) has more horizontal spread than vertical power-creep repetition overall