Diablo 4 - Is paragon system that terrible?

That seems to be the case, I am not sure what the issue is over the name. D3 calls it paragon, D:I calls it paragon. D4 is in pre alpha so we do not know what it will be called yet. But whatever they call it, it is coming.

End Game Progression System

  1. D3 calls it Paragon.
  2. D:I calls if Paragon.
  3. D4 calls it ?

From what I know that Immortal in Alpha has 4 Paragon Pages and there are supposed to be 10 Paragon pages.

They do talk a bit about Immortal Paragon during their AMA:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/kif9ss/diablo_immortal_ama_with_wyatt_cheng_lead/

sVr: What are your plans to “circumvent”/“restrict” the continuous powercreep inherent to ARPGs (with each major content patch)? (Demonic Eevee)

Wyatt Cheng (Lead Designer): Hey sVr. I’ll answer in two parts. We plan to cap Paragon progression and gradually raise that cap with each new content update.

Neinball: So after starting up a new character: is it meant to be a whole new experience (no shared currency, completely reset battle pass, etc) per character or a limitation of the alpha? And do paragon levels on those new character only unlock at max level?

Caleb Arseneaux (Lead Producer): Paragon is shared across characters but only unlocked when those characters reach max level. We did this to have a more meaningful leveling experience similar to World of Warcraft when your main character is the primary focus. We wanted to to make sure that a level 33 Demon Hunter and a level 34 Wizard had reasons to group and tackle hard challenges and create a social environment that is beneficial to the game. If that level 33 Demon Hunter had 300 paragon points to spent they would not need to engage in leveling the same way.

Nothing in there is saying they will have a paragon system. Heck, since they are directly saying they want the new system to be better than the paragon system, a logical conclusion would be that it would not be a repeat of the paragon system.

Of course it is Blizzard, so logic does not apply. So it probably will be.

Best we can hope for is that there is nothing in D4 resembling a paragon system.

Diablo Immortals system, while obviously different from D3s, still very much sound like a paragon-like system, with meaningless, endless, account-wide progression.

Depth and replayability sounds like the paragon system to you? :rofl:

This is such a laughable statement from Wyatt. We plan to cap it, but raise it with each… Sorry, but seriously, if you raise it, then you didn’t cap it… obviously. That is just time-gating your endless progression.

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I do not really care what they do in D:I, maybe they will elaborate on the end game system in D4 in a few weeks. I don’t really care what they call it. They can call it peaches :peach: and appeals :apple: as long as it is a good system.

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It would be a big mistake IF Blizzard makes Infinite Paragons in Diablo IV.
100 Paragons Points are enough, not more.

But, If it was me who was working on Diablo IV, I would have completely removed Paragon system.

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It’s very possible we see this type of system in D4.

It’s a soft version (regarding grind) of what we had in D3.

Too bad you are not. Either you accept that D4 has paragon or just don’t buy D4 when it is out. :slight_smile:

  1. Starcraft co-op calls it Mastery Level and then Ascension level.
  2. Mobile ARPG that I played calls it Master Level.

Then why won’t you just stop calling it paragon?

I can call whatever I want until the official term is out for Diablo 4.

Not my problem if you are feel hurt from reading the “paragon” word.

P word bad :no_mouth:

They can call it whatever they want.
If it is anything resembling ‘endless’, account-wide power with no meaningful choices, then it is Paragon. Changing the name won’t change that.
Likewise, if they make a system that is not paragon, but keeps the name, then fine by me.

Just dont do paragon. Ever again.

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Double standard is a bad thing here. There are so many mentioning “D4 with paragon” in their posts and I don’t see you asking them to stop.

Also try to google “D4 Paragon” and you can see a lot of result/people calling it “D4 Paragon”. I am not the only one using the word “Paragon” for D4 after all. :rofl:

I can’t pick on everyone
But you are being very prominent here
Also you are not the first one
As I said, it always pees me off when people talk about stupid D3 content as it was a thing in D4 already and i do tell them

What a lame excuse. You are just looking for a fight with me.

Those people are not wrong when they talk about paragon as it was a thing in D4 because it is indeed a thing. Even the developer interview video that Avalon posted and their Quarter Blog are pretty much confirmed that D4 will have a paragon system, just they haven’t finalized what kind of power it should offering to the players.

Your pathetic attempt to police me and others at this moment is nothing but being a denial.

An endgame progression system*

No. I will stick to D4 Paragon. Easier to type and easier for people to understand what is it.

You are free to use that “Endgame Progression System” in your every post though.

Yes. Yes it is. :thinking:

Only the term paragon can make people argue for hundreds of posts. It’s as bad as it can be.

The good thing is the D4 team realized that paragon, as executed in D3, was an awful system. I surely helped them with my thousands of posts against it on the old forums.

They can mix account wide with character.

For example, imagine these character dependent trees are sub-trees of a big account wide tree.

So, for example, you have global account wide trees for Melee, Ranged and Caster. Then Gladiator becomes a character based sub-tree (of a particular D4 class) part of the global Melee branch.

Said otherwise, you farm with any character Melee, Ranged and Caster paragon, but you farm with each of your characters the respective sub-tree you want. It’s all non-endless of course.

I think such system would be very cool.

You shouldn’t be surprised.

Interesting take. I see one of the trees/pennants are locked yet. Perhaps it may also differ by character class/traits and it takes some sacrifices for efficiency (a passive slot or stat threshold) to unlock all of them?