Diablo 4 Feedback (From a D2 Former no. 1 HC player)

Didn’t know that spamming Full Rejuvenation can make game challenging.

What is the difference between grinding paragon at 3000+ with grinding to Lv97? Grinding paragon at a high level can be as tedious as Lv96 Druid to Lv97.

You can’t one shot bosses at High GR even with best gear.

Ghost type, Winged Assassin, and Fallen Shaman and his kins are pretty scary at high GR too.

So playing Diablo supposed to feel like working on a job now?

So farming the same map and boss is better?

I don’t remember there is a D3 build that have all cooldown skills on all his skill bar. What build are you using?

What is the difference between a player who plays Diablo 3 for 800 hours vs a D2 player who plays Diablo 2 for 800 hours? Why is Diablo 3 will get called out for spending their life on D3 and not D2?

Nephalem and Greater Rift have different layout, monster selection, and arena every time you open it.

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I clearly said this in a later paragraph: My biggest thing as a fan is I’m not here to say “My opinion is 100% right and yours is wrong”. The thread was made so I can give my initial thoughts as a massive fan, and everyone else can read what I said voice their own concerns and feelings but in a constructive way.

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It is not constructive to announce that everyone must have played all 3 diablo’s.

Most people never had the chance to play D1 and not a loss at all.

D2 being an utterly amazing game tho still too far in the past for many of the twenty year olds playing D3 right now to nail down that requirement.

I am fully in the last two.
Stay humble and stop with the No1. stuff.

I have no doubt there are others that can call you out on your #1 stuff.

Keep the discussion on what is pertinent.
thanks

I agree with most of your points. Don’t let the few salty D3 fanboys get under your skin. Let’s hope Blizzard listens to the majority and takes notes.

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I can’t agree with you. D2 endgame was fast: hammerdin, java and lighting sorc can clean a 8p diabaal game easy and fast. Every meph or andy run was fast too.
The game was easy, more than d3. The real end game was PVP.

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Maybe they should not make it D2 but reimagined - POE does a reasonable job, this could be improved upon and folded into D4 in a cunning way. Yeah spamming full rejuvs is stupid but the concept of the belt is not (IMO).

Well this is an easy answer, however allot of things are ignored when making it.
Possibly most important is games sales as a whole, in 2000 the game desktop market was allot smaller as a whole compared to 2012.
In the year 2000 allot less people actually had a personal computer than in 2012 (how many heavily depends on which country) and the global selling of games wasn’t the way it is now either. Simply said the market was much bigger and so were average sales.
Furthermore D3 was sold on console aswell which was a huge market (and still is).
So here a direct comparison is just non-sense.

Furthermore D3 sold 6,3 mil first week, that number is not because of D3 but D2, many D2 players where hyped on getting the next Diablo game.
I think about 90% of my irl friends bought D3 and about halve of them quit within the first 3 months often returning to D2 of those that did continue to play D3 almost all left the game within a few years while most played Diablo 2 for about 8 to 19 years.
Only a few (including myself) continued playing, however mostly every once and a while (now usually start of a season).

Commercially D3 was a big success, but not all of that was based on the quality of D3 (especially at launch).
As a game D3 is descent, as Diablo series game it feels unfullfilling and lackluster any many and thus on that point unsuccessful at the very least.
Basically I bought D3 blindly because Diablo 1 and 2 were incredible, I will wait for D4 because eventhough I did play D3 and a descent amount, it wasn’t the game I thought I was buying.

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D2 was easy, more than D3? Come on dude. D3 Normal is a piece of cake. D2 Normal is a piece of cake only in Act 1 and even there you can die. In D3 the only challenge comes when you reach the torments and go against the infinite difficulty curve.

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I started lots of ladders and you can kill hell baal and ubers on day 1. You need some weeks to reach a 150. You are wrong.

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All of the points presented by DeathBringer are spot-on.

Just forget Diablo III. In fact, completely retcon it out of Diablo IV’s story. The Diablo fan community consensus is overwhelmingly unanimous on the point that Diablo III is simply a bad game with bad systems and bad design in almost all areas. Just ditch it. Clinging on to the mistake that was Diablo III is only going to harm future Diablo games. The best thing that can be done is to wipe it from the official series lineage.

Look at how many fans of Diablo have returned to the forums in response to Diablo IV’s media release. And notice that they all say the same thing about Diablo III: That it’s bad and Diablo IV is currently looking in its style (not specifically artwork) like Diablo III.

That Diablo series fan reappearance and commentary is the writing on the wall screaming at you to ditch Diablo III influence and use Diablo II as the basis for Diablo IV and then build from there. Don’t let pride and arrogance control your senses. There is nothing good to be salvaged or carried over to Diablo IV from Diablo III. Sincerely. Most of us bought and played Diablo III out of hope for a good experience and because it was what was available, and not because it was anything worthy of the Diablo series. D3’s design was a grave mistake and unless you recognize it as such you will only perpetuate its flaws.

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Give us complex character building with a complex skill trees.

Give us creatures that are designed and presented with integrity and realism, and nothing like huge monster in the DIV gameplay that does a cheesy and cringy goofy cartoony roar. That’s an 7 or 8 year-old’s idea of cool. But for a game that’s supposed to be serious in its presentation, like Diablo, it’s just friggin lame and painful to witness.

Give us a very challenging first-time playthrough, and not the garbage waste-of-time first playthrough that Diablo III offers. Even at max available first-run difficulty, Diablo III doesn’t begin to present even a micro challenge. And no challenge means no fun. Do you think I’m going to replay a game that was no fun to play through the first time? I’ll tell you plainly: I did not. Having the first run be a cakewalk was a blisteringly incompetent decision.

Give us low loot and very low special loot drop rates. In Diablo 3, every creature is a pinata filled with iridescent look. It makes loot drops meaningless, without valuable experience, without excitement, without pleasure. It’s infuriating how it it robs players of a meaningful and valuable experience by such a stupid and sophomoric design, and it says something bad about the people working on the games. I want it to mean something when a coloured loot drops. It means nothing in Diablo III, devaluing the play experience tremendously.

Keep the game slow-paced, with stark and dire environments. Some brighter environments can also work in a serious and dark game, if they’re done with sincerity. The thing is Blizzard doesn’t have a history of making games with sincerity - Blizzard is known in particular for making goofy, cartoony, insincere games. Well, that isn’t Diablo. Diablo, consisting of Diablo and Diablo II, is a series of realistic presentation, sincerity and integrity of visual, audio, and narrative designs. Diablo III didn’t have any of that, and instead was Blizzardified into a goody cartoony insincere pretentious pile of fairy crap, and that’s what made it a terrible game.

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Blizzard, please remember and take heed that Blizzard didn’t create the Diablo series and the series isn’t renowned and loved for anything Blizzard have, so far, contributed to it. You should be respecting of that and what it means.

Diablo is a renowned series because of the particular high quality style achieved by former Blizzard North developers. If Blizzard wants to make a quality Diablo game, you’re going to have to be faithful to what Diablo’s creators established and not try to Blizzardify the series, spiting what made it good. Leave your egos at the door, please.

With Diablo III, Blizzard sent out the strong message that Blizzard is a one-trick pony developer that can’t think or work outside of its tropes. Recognize the mistake that was feeling smug about Blizzard’s tropey style, thinking that smearing it on anything makes an impressive product, and make the decision to not repeat that mistake. Get rid of the over-exaggerated and hyperbolic character designs and animations. That’s cheese has no rightful place in a real Diablo game.

When making Diablo IV, think Integrity. That means to not think like Blizzard, but to tune into what Condor / Blizzard North were after. I think it might be key that Blizzard hires David Brevik, Erich Schaefer, and Max Schaefer as consultants for Diablo IV. Remember, check your egos at the door and don’t humour smug delusions about your abilities and personal vision like was done during Diablo III’s development. Diablo isn’t your personal game, and it has yet to be proven that Diablo can be a Blizzard game.

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Never played Diablo before D3, but agree with most of your points. Some comment is a bit premature I think as this is pre-alfa, at best, but I suppose it can’t hurt to give your opinion now rather then later. I do hope when there is an actual D4 forum the Devs actually will ask community input. Time will tell.

  1. Don’t know how the Druid looked in D2, but my basic view is a skinny staff wielding robed figure. If it wasn’t for the animal skull/horns I would have mistaken this guy for a Barb. Also I’m hoping that on release they at least have one more class to choose from.

  2. Oh yes please. Must a be sign of the times, but people don’t have any effing patience anymore. It’s nothing but “I want it, I want it now”. Been back from hiatus (getting last stashtab) this season and even if I didn’t get powerlevelled it would have taken at most 2 of my playing days to get to level 70. Absolutely no sense of accomplishment / engagement.

  3. Bit undecided at tradiing. I remember the mess that was the (RM) Auction House and all the botting that went with it. Personally, the current system of only trading stuff between party members I find logical and okay. The time that trading may occur though could be lenghtened a bit and perhaps allow trading between Guild / Clan members for a certain amount of time and perhaps add a bound to equip. I’m not to much for free trading. Sorry.

  4. Again, oh yes please. Personally I find there is way to much stuff dropping. Even in the demo I find that there is far to much stuff dropping. I want stuff to be scarce, really scarce, so that when something drops it actually has meaning. Now it feels more like your some kind of hoover picking everything up for salvage purposes. I wouldn’t mind even if only gold was 90% of the drops, still in small amount mind you. Having said that, in that case having meaning full vendors would be nice as well.

  5. Again yes. The so called ‘random’ map in D3 isn’t random at all. Even after more then a year on hiatus I still almost can find my way blind through them.

  6. Slow is good. Mind you, I do find it awesome at times when you run around and everyting you touch dies, but it gets old very soon and it goes directly against the atmosphere the game should have. This is a dark, sinister and deadly world filled with monsters, demons and even hostile humans were death should always be a heartbeat away, not a world where you can stretch your hand like Thanos and half, or even the complete, screen dies. Mind you, no need for Dark Souls level of play, but a game where you need at least some moderate level of skill and wits to keep dying over and over is for me far more rewarding then going Super Saiyan and killing everything instantly.

  7. GRs are boring, but it’s basically the only meaningfull thing to do. I actually look forward to doing raids and other events (not everyone is onboard with this MMO part I know). They do need to make a significant number of them though.

  8. You mean, always online, but forget it, that’s from last century. I can imagine how infuriating it can be, especially for Hardcore players, but I can see far to much crap happening if people could play this offline.

For my own personal preference:

  • I want a whole bunch of hidden dungeons. And with hidden I mean that they don’t glow like objectives like in D3, they’re not mentioned anywhere in the game guide and you basically have to stumble upon them. Some you can find after getting a tome somehow, others by listening to an NPC, some you need to get a couple of artififacts together (like the staff of herding, but with a lot better dungeon), some I want only visible during the day/night (ingame) or even a certain moonphase. Get creatieve, but give us different things to puzzle out, to accomplish instead of an unending number of Greater Rifts.

Lobby system, a good one. Able to create you own public game with descriptions and maybe even restrictions (level, certain class can/can’t join).

No Powercreep. For the love of god make absolutely sure we don’t get the same level of powercreep with have in D3. Personally, if all that ever changes is the level cap for a slight boost in power and never ever touch items it’s all good for me.

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D1 was a crappy game?
D1 was awesome for its time, sure if you would play it now never having played it back in its days you will probably not like it.
Now sure you shouldn’t use those graphics for D4, but you can definitely use the concept, just rebuild it to current time.
When you opened the door to the Butcher in D1 you felt similar to going to Duriel on your HC char in D2, that feeling of dread that if you survived turned into bliss (or Blizz).
D3 for me never had anything similar, closest was Adria or maybe Malthael but neither are scary enough.

D4 well I guess we can only wait and see, I think they are trying atleast.

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Honestly from what I saw as someone who played D1, D2 and D3, the demo looked really good overall to me. I am very excited for the game even if it is a few years away. Even though its very early in the development process, a few changes I’d personally like to see are…
1 - use a potion system similar to PoE, you get a potion that has a few charges and a buff of some sort.
2 - cooldowns are fine as long as they are short, no cooldowns leads to spamming abilities and long cooldowns lead to a lot of downtime just avoiding stuff but having short cooldowns leads to the player having to make decisions about if they need to risk using it now when you might need it later. So keep the cooldowns, don’t add cooldown reduction to gear and make them short cooldowns.
3 - The druid model could use some changes to its design, it does look a bit too much like the barb. I’d like to see the model a bit more visually different.
4 - I liked D2 having a level cap of 99 and D3’s Paragon 1.0 system wasn’t bad though a bit too easy to max and kinda generic in what it offered. Paragon 2.0 was too much and got rid of any hard choices you might need to make, you would just farm paragon all the time and after you hit 800, then it was all points into your primary stat. I’d be fine with a system similar to Paragon 1.0 but with better and harder choices to make that should take about as long as level 99 did in d2.
5 - IMO trading should be open period for everything except maybe ancient or mythic items.
6 - Im fine with the mythic style dungeons for loot and progression as long as that isn’t the only way to get some of the best items. Players need choice and greater rifts in d3 became the go to way to get items as you could run them quickly and get the most reward for your time.
7 - Very excited about PvP being added but i don’t like the “both players must opt in” option unless there is a very compelling reward for opting in. The “danger” in d2 of being PK’d added excitement and fun to the game, yea it sucked getting killed but it was part of the game. I think the best option is to have PvP enabled zones and ones without PvP and add in some form of PvP arena as well with it’s own rewards system that might have a few PvP specific items and cosmetics. Maybe something where you have to turn in X number of ears to buy an item from a PvP vendor.

Thanks in advance for taking the time to read this, let’s all try to keep this constructive so we can help provide a lot of feedback to help made D4 the best game it can be.

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Totally agreed about everything.
Levels - 99 levels is a great thing. Basically player should finish the game at lvl 60-70. Everything after is all about another way to make your character stronger. To feel that you are not wasting your time, you are INVESTING into your character.
Difficulty - Game should be difficult. I remember launch of D3. When I and my friend were struggling in Inferno, but it was fun, we enjoyed it. The night before game was nerfed we spend about 5 hours to kill Belial, it was very late at night, but we succeded and we were really happy.
Map overlay - d3-like minimap is a piece of … Please give us d2-like overlay.
A bit of endgame: Uberlevels and Instances from Median XL. Huge DIFFICULT zones with tone of mobs, mb a few mini-bosses and 1 really HARD boss. No special zone-restricted loot except Charms from bosses. Basically raids. 1 for each zone at launch, and then may be new one each 1-2 seasons. They can be at any part of the Sanctuary world.

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I am not a big fan of d3 and poe… I like to play wow sometime but when i want to play to d2, i want to play to d2… Please d1 and d2 was there before d3… Why in the life did you change all the commands in d3?
I juste realy hope that blizzard is gonna bring back the d2 commands, selecting the skills with the f keys and casting with right or left click, i can’t believe that i saw no Diablo fans talking about it yet… Im not saying that it cannot be costomizable but please bring the real good old way to play that alway been since the begining of the series before d3, when i want to play to Diablo i want it to be the commands of Diablo…! When you make a new game you can make some things better, you can add things to but whats the trill of “changing” the things? You should never take off anything, you juste need to add… If you wanna make a different game please juste dont give it the name of a different serie that already exist, dont call it diablo 3 call it something else, juste dont do the same mistake with Diablo 4, d1 and d2 was there way before d3.

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Really good point and I didn’t even think of that. Spot on for pointing that out!

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As the average player that’s going to play D4 (not the top 1% Hardcore who play 18h a day) I disagree with a lot of what you are saying.

And the thing is, you are going to buy the game anyway. And you’ll play it, maybe not play nearly as much as you played D2; but you’ll play it. The people the company, as a business, will cater to are the casuals; because those are the ones that are undecided on whether to buy the game.

So, I would not get my hopes up if I were you.

Perfect post.

You should come back and add in some more thoughts when you have the time because you think the same as any true Diablo fan i think.
It just amazes me how none of like minded people are ever in control of the game direction.

Everyone working on Diablo 4 should be mandated to play through Diablo II for minimum amount of hours per week.

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I really don’t know your rational for this; they’re trying to EVOKE D2 nostalgia, but everything about the gameplay and design is Diablo 3, not 2. low Capped max level that you’re xpected to play at, 6 skills, no more no less, Dumbed down stats…

They know people liked D2 more than D3, but rather than man up and truly go back to that style, they’re just trying to coat D3 in a D2 paintjob and resell D3 to people.

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We dont want an exact copy of D2.
We want Diablo 1/2/3 all mixed together into one masterpiece and of course obviously having something to call its own.

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