Oh goth no
Too many sliders are super weird and you have no idea anymore whats the actual game and people start adjusting the game to their power and loot instead of farming and getting gud to eventually beat the game
“Oh no, this boss is always killing me, let me just decrease his damage for a second”
You can go too far with individual adjustments
Sure, but I think 3 Sliders with 10 steps each is still within reason.
You can do things like that to a certain degree with what I proposed, but as I said, if you set Monster Health to let’s say 7, then Monster Damage (and the Slider for ‘Other Stuff’) automatically has a minimum of e.g. 5 and you can not get lower than that.
So you can only adjust it to a certain degree.
Furthermore, the lower you make one of the sliders, the less/lower your rewards would get.
Its just weird and unnecessary to me
I want to adapt to the game and not the other way round
Having harder difficulties in endgame is fine
1 Like
For some people this would be endgame, similar to how PvP is endgame for people in D2, or how some people like GR’s in D3.
If it is done that way, then its fine with me (aside the fact that Key Dungeons and D4 being an MMO is killing the overworld).
Yeah, that would definitely be a very good thing. Even in D3 something like that would have prevented fishing to a large degree.
Imagine if in D3, normal rifts and GR’s would give the same amount of XP and Legendary Gems could be upgraded in a different way.
Then you could choose between Normal Rift and Leaderboard run (GR) and for GR’s, you get placed on the LB with your average clearing time.
Aborting a Rift gives you Minus Points.
And you would need maybe 100+ runs before you appear on the leaderboards.
That could ahve worked much better.
If there is just one slider, then I would say that 7 to 10 settings is okay, especially when the world scales to your level.
3 Sliders with 10 different settings is imo at least still somewhat within a reasonable range.
Maybe it is coming from me mostly playing non-competitive non-meta LoD builds, but I relatively often have a harder time to adjust my difficulty appropriately in D3, so that enemies neither die too soon, nor feel like that it is becoming a grind (something similar for damage).
I can see the point for certain adjustments to be made to the difficulty settings based on personal preference, but only within a certain range.
1 Like
It’s hard to balance a game
But it’s still the job of the devs
They should not give it to us
We are paying for it^^
Yep. That should be the goal. I doubt many people enjoy fishing for GRifts, so making it an unviable thing to do would be positive.
As well as a way to make people stick to one build imo. If you respecced, your average should also reset. So no way to respec for different key dungeons, if you wanted to compete for the Key dungeon leaderboards (you could respec for other stuff, but the moment you wanted to do leaderboard runs, it would need to be with the same spec as you used before - unless you decided to start over)
But different builds will still have different powerlevels - hopefully not as large as in D3 (or even D2 with some builds like the Hammerdin), but there will be different powerlevels.
And builds will also have different strength an weaknesses.
And different players will enjoy different kinds of gameplay pace and difficulties.
Still, if you reduce the difficulty, you will also reduce your rewards, so although playing at a higher difficulty is more challenging, it still will give you more/better rewards.
To make it a more enjoyable, cave maps and a few other maps could stop spawning at a certain GR level.
Maybe something like could get implemented in one way or another. Maybe it also could get tied to the armory. Not sure, had to think it through a bit more.
Maybe you would need 50+ runs with the same build for it to land on the leaderboards.
So if you change the build, it maybe would not reset everything, but you had to make 50+ GR again before landing on the leaderboards.
I get that and I am totally for different difficulties in endgame after max level
But until then, the pace of your play through is your difficulty and min maxing enemies to your build is very counter intuitive to the genres idea to min max your character to be able to beat the game^^
Depending on what exactly key dungeons are, it could just be one of each.
It sounded like each key dungeon would be tied to an actual dungeon in the game. With the large overworld of D4, I guess there could easily be 50+ different dungeons, and thus different key dungeons too.
Do each one once, and your average counts for the leaderboard.
If you want to try for a better average, you would need to redo all dungeons again.
If I understand you correctly, you would just keep calculating the average, when doing more than 50, so even if you did 1000, it would be the average of that 1000? I could see that become a problem. At some point you would not be able to improve your average anymore, due to having done too many runs already. When using average speed, I think you need to be able to reset it all and start over. The amount of dungeons in the average just needs to be large enough, that it becomes unrealistic to “fish” and hope you get great dungeons 50 times (or whatever the amount might be) in a row.
Come on now, be honest. How many of those 125 skills are useable? are actually used? Probably less than 30 for every single class. Probably around ~20 in most cases.
I really don’t care you can eventually max all skills in Diablo 4. As long as it’s a significant time investment, I’m pretty OK with it. You’ll be able to try a different build; maybe even several as you progress your character long enough. That’s better than making a Sorceress three separate times, isn’t it?
My concerns are simple; that D4 will punish making “alts” because your main class won’t be progressing at the same time. That the system feels punishing when play to try an alternate class. The other concern is there won’t be enough appeal to progress your character that long after you “finish” your build.
But not only is the game not out yet, it's not even finished yet. We'll have to wait and see.
Still more than in a similar scenario in D4.
But that it a matter of D3s terrible balance.
It is a huge downgrade from D3 no matter how you look at it. Which is kinda the wrong way to go when coming from an unimpressive D3.
1 Like
I don’t disagree. But I’d rather have 30 relatively balanced class builds than 2-3 outrageously UNBALANCED ones. That’s what we have in Diablo 3.
I think you're concerns are a bit premature. Wait. And. See.
Making 3 separate sorceresses is a lot better than having one char that does it all tbh.
Imo, the way not to punish alts is to make sure there isnt a lot of progress for a character after you “finish” a build. Time to start a new char then. No “endless” progression.
Sure, but Id rather have 100s of relatively balanced builds than 30. And so on.
Start with making the game offer a lot of build options (which going from 125 skills to 30 is not), then worry about balance afterward (and you certainly should worry about balance). But if you design a shallow game with no build options, then nothing really matters, no matter how balanced it might be. Better aim high.
Well, I see your point and hope they change aspects of it for sure, but it does accomplish two things that make it better than Diablo 3’s system.
-
It allows for choice when leveling up. You pick skills and can pour points into them. This is much more satisfying to progress through, then to have skills forced on you in the same order, every time you play.
-
They have a Talent Tree, which essentially is part of the skill system, replacing Passives in Diablo III and Passive skills (in the same trees as active skills) in Diablo II. You cannot max out the Talent Tree, and it direclty affects your play style, so hopefuly this is fun and significant enough that you get a sense of choice, progression, and individuality.
With that said, I agree that I don’t care for the current skill setup, as I personally think you should never be able to max out everything in any aspect of a game like Diablo. Maxing all aspects of Paragon make Paragon lame. Maxing all your skills takes away the sense of build customization and choice.
I don’t necessarily mind the skill system too much if they really nail the Talent tree and make it a very important and choice driven aspect that significantly impacts your build. And it should not be able to be respec’d easily. I am fine with respecing, but make talent trees the build defining DNA of the character, making it something to think about and consider if you actually want to respec or not.
In this specific context I was referring to D3’s Greater Rifts.
sorry for the confusion…
That primarily is due to D3’s terrible itemization that only buffs very specific skills and skill combinations, which also often does not allow you to combine certain skills, e.g. Arcane Orb + Hydra, or HotA + Revenge.
And beyond that, the balance of the skills is not perfect, because skills got balanced around sets and legendaries.
This is not a problem of D3’s skill system itself.
Well, you actually have ~30 outrageously unbalanced builds in D3, aka the set-meta builds (and a few LoD builds), while the other 99% of all builds are basically useless.
If D3’s itemization would not be tied to specific skills but rather be more universally useful for various skills and builds, then the whole issue would be different.
I agree that it is very, very satisfying to progress your skills by putting points into them.
I just think that Skill-specific Skill Trees like in Last Epoch or the example I shared are better than D4’S current ystem.
That is a separate issue from the active skill system.
I agree with that as well.
I don’t like the “tree”-aspect of the Passive Skills.
I’d rather have a “Passive Skill List” in which you can spend points into, instead of a tree.
1 Like
uuuugh shiver
not again
You still could and should be able to spend points into them.
A Skill List and Skill Points are not mutually exclusive.
1 Like
In case it’s not clear, I meant 2-3 builds per class, not 2-3 builds total. I think you knew that.
I know, but the point is was trying to make is that in D3, 99%+ of all builds, (whether this are 2-3 or 30 builds per class) are so outrageously unbalanced (probably several dozens or even hundreds of times stronger than some LoD builds) that they make most other builds to not even being able to come anywhere near being viable, efficient or competitive…
… but that is not due to a large or larger number of skills existing, but rather due to itemization in D3, not because of the skills themself.
That was the point I was trying to make.