Lol. Get over yourself. The people against have expressed legitimate reasons. There is literally no reason to have infinite progressions besides “you want to feel like you are progressing.” If you get “bored” because you don’t feel like you are progressing and quit because of it, you are what we call a “casual player”. The ‘grind’ to get better isn’t for you. You want the artificial progression that a moving experience bar provides you. You have come up with ideas that takes all the “benefits” of an infinite system where the only difference to what you are proposing and a finite system is that there is a moving experience bar and maybe a splash screen that pops up when you level. Since that is the case, I propose a finite paragon system. Upon reaching max level, you will still get a moving experience bar. You get the animation of leveling up when it fills and it all just starts over. Since there is no benefit of actually leveling you even don’t have to worry about increasing values of experience required. Experience required will remain static. This way you can get your artificial experience of progression every time you login.
Nope. Only D3 did this. “Times” haven’t changed. Proven by all the people that abandoned D3 for trying to change the genre and moving to other arpgs that were sticking to the core features of an arpg.
Shouldn’t add power. Encourages botting more to already go along with the botting for items.
Even if it’s extremely diminished, almost more so if extremely diminished.
It also has a negative impact on PvP and ladder racing, which they already said they are going to take seriously this time.
As for “non” power things, they already said that they are going to be selling microtransactions, so this wont be a thing. You’re going to have to pay to make your skeletons look like zombies.
I googled, looks like you can but the bot farms on D4 would look like the apocalypse comparatively, especially if it’s for microtransactions, trading, and paragon farming. Talk about a money racket.
Not to mention a legal nightmare for going after botters with mtx/real cash involved.
If they lay solid foundations of the core game systems like slow paced but meaningful and rewarding leveling system, rare drop of legendary items that actually matters(not falling from the skies legenderies like D3 that if not ancient or primal ancient sucks), cosmetic items and other good varieties of late game activities then we have nothing to worry about. The lesson here is to make our journey from beginning to the end slow, rewarding and fun, not rushed like in D3 from 1-70 and then adding hollow game systems like Paragon leveling that give us the illustration of choices that actually don’t matter. Our journey must have start and faraway end, because when we reach that max level and max gear and we must feel the sweet feeling of accomplishment!
Additively stacking a mulplicative stat will always have diminishing return. Adding 1% crit damage to 130% will grant more power than adding 1% to 550%.
This is just as easily achieved by having the amount of achieving a point becoming 10 times greater. If it takes 1 billion exp per level to gain a point, you can just as easily increase that to require 10 bililion exp.
And that is the thing, exp farming will continue as long as it is feasible, that is how long it takes to gain a level. In season 4 players didn’t reach paragon level 800 as it took far too long. In season 11 the average level was beyond 1000 as exp has become much easier to acquire. Generally it has seemed that players stopped farming exp when the was more than 3 GRs between a level up. So take the amount of exp gained from a GR130 and multiply that by 3. The paragon level that has that amount of exp between is where the majority of devoted players will stop this season.
So no I don’t believe in such a system as it will always create more division among the playerbase than what is healthy. It will lead directly to meta’s in order to function.
I do understand diminishing returns and the problem still there. If I put so much diminishing returns in my calculation as it is in your own example, why have a leveling beyond the cap in the first place? Just to see numbers getting higher?
I stay with my vision on this one, it hurts the game a lot. D3 has diminishing returns in many stats some of them in the paragon leveling system and, in my opinion, it is just awful. If you see my posts you will see that I am not a copy paste D2 guy, but in this subject, I really think that a hard-to-reach cap level is a far superior system.
Do you keep playing D3 to keep on adding paragon to get to 10,000+ paragon just because you can? Do you realistically see yourself doing that. I know that I don’t see myself doing that anytime soon.
You just don’t get the beauty of diminishing returns as a control mechanic. It will work, even though you don’t like it.
Look there are characters in path of exile that I didn’t take to level cap or go as far as the build could go because I didn’t want to go that far. I accomplished what I wanted with them and re-rolled to play other builds.
This is what I will likely do with an infinite system in D4 that is not entirely about power and has diminishing returns. Then I can say after a period of time I have completed the build that I want and go play another build. Even do some re-rolling to accomplish it because I can.
Power shouldn’t be the only advancement in a game. I will study AA from EQ2 to see how it works and whether there are any non power advancements in it. This is what I am talking about.
Look whether it is a level and gear grind or a paragon level and gear grind you still are looking for more experience and gear. There is no difference between having a 10,000 level cap that players are not likely to reach to a 10,000 paragon system. Both are grinding for experience along with gear. There is no way around it.
Paragon experience in D4 might even be tied to the character and not cross over in seasons.
Really do you think that if GGG never added a lick of content to PoE that the players would still be there?
Look again it is like a double cap system. Where the soft cap is reachable by all. But the hard cap is something that you will never reach.
IIRC they said that they wanted to add customization options in the paragon system.
So you can do other things with paragon along with being encouraged to play other characters and builds.
You act like diminishing returns is amarvel idea that only exists in infinite systems? Diminishing returns are great, but they existed way before you came up with the idea. And you are totally missing the point of why an infinite system is bad if you think it’s simply because it has potential to provide “infinite power”.
Great for you? this offers nothing to the argument. I don’t see what kind of point you are trying to make with this statement. To prove that you are a casual player?
I really don’t know why you keep coming back to this diminishing returns idea as if it only exists in an infinite system. The only thing you have expressed to me is that you want a diminishing return system and that you don’t push your characters to be fully min-maxed/optimized. Okay, where is the argument where you have to have an infinite system?
There is a huge difference in having a level cap and it being infinite.
the #1 reason is that level caps are made for hardcore players who make it a goal to reach a cap. People who aren’t ever going to hit the cap or plan to hit the cap can be ignored because in this case the system is identical. To the players who make achieving the cap their goal, the whole system becomes pointless because there is always a next level to reach. It has nothing to do with how much “power” that next level gives you. It’s about the sense of accomplishment/achievement. Your opinion on this subject is completely bias as you aren’t someone who cares reaching max level or making your character the best it can be.
Yes. The players would still be there. Just like Diablo 2 still has players. But just like Diablo 2, there would be a lot less players. It’s always been this way. Times haven’t changed. If anything companies have changed. They noticed they can grow their player base by pushing out more content. But that has always been the case. Nothing new.
It just needs to be said, when the system is uncapped, time is the only factor preventing anyone from reaching any given amount of stats. Having a hard limit in stats with an uncapped progression will just mean that you reach a point where you will never get another stat point again, making it effectively capped.
But they can still adjust the curves so that someone who plays 12 hours per week only has 50% more stats than someone who plays 6 hours per week, and someone who plays 80 hours per week might still only have triple of what that player has.
The whole thing would be easier to manage if the new progression came with a point-buy system so that later on you need multiple level ups to afford a single stat increase.
I know. Which means only botters have the potential to reach the hard cap, unless you are saying its beyond even what a bot could hope to achieve. If that’s the case, just put a cap and make it ridiculously long to get to. At least pretend you can reach an end.
They might’ve, I’m honestly unsure. I just highly doubt that they will add anything of interest, yet alone, much at all, when they’ve most recently announced microtransactions as the future of Diablo income. Bots would be all over this and Blizz would find themselves in a minefield when it came to banning people when real $$$ is on the line/loss of income. Imagine the lure that botting cosmetics, paragon power, and items would have, especially with trading making a return.