D4: Will everyone playing the same build be identical?

[Pe3eWe3e-21236]

@MicroRNA-1507

So what? It is not about being first but feeling that you knee capoed yourself by not spending a few minutes to look up good builds.

Casuals in general prefer to play a good build versus a bad build.

Yes it is about being first.

Casuals would not even know if their build is good or not if they did not look at how other builds perform. And yes they would try to copy #1 build much more than #100 build.

I saw people beating me with my own build just because they had 3x more free time than me. Some of them had better reflexes also. That is fine. But as theory crafter I should be rewarded a bit more than I am in Diablo 3 now.

[Tolfdir-11539]

And with extending the cap each season to keep the excitement alive.

[Pe3eWe3e-21236]

@Avalon-11311

We will see how good some people truly are now that paragon maxes out at 200.

Cap is 200 or 100???

[MicroRNA-1507]

Maxroll will post their best builds before or at D4 launch based on the open beta.

[Pe3eWe3e-21236]

@MicroRNA-1507

Maxroll will post their best builds before ir at D4 launch based on the open beta.

So what? That does not mean someone else cant be smarter/faster than them.
if they can do it someone else can do it also.

If you want to follow their guide you dont need respec option anyway.

[MicroRNA-1507]

@Pe3eWe3e-21236

So what? That does not mean someone else cant be smarter/faster than them.

True

@Pe3eWe3e-21236

Also if they can do it someone else can do it also.

True

@Pe3eWe3e-21236

If you want to follow their guide you dont need respec option anyway.

True, and with high respec costs, more will do exactly that copying maxroll builds.

[Cyonan-1183]

@Esm-2321

If the endgame consists of a more varied type, lets say “rifts” where you want aoe clear. Boss rushing builds where you would want single target more. Then you have the option to specialize your build towards the content you want to run. If 1 build is best at doing all of the things then the design has failed IMO. But the game has to be able to offer a more varied endgame for different build setups.

This is something I hope Diablo 4 does, and it does seem like they want to have “world content” be a thing. I’m admittedly worried it’ll end up like how world content in WoW works(which is quite boring), but it seems like it’ll be another avenue for gameplay that isn’t just dungeon spam.

Variety in dungeons should also happen.

With all that though, one thing worth bringing up is they should also avoid the issue in Diablo 3 where people constantly abandon and respawn rifts in order to “fish” for the best ones.

[Pe3eWe3e-21236]

@Cyonan-1183

With all that though, one thing worth bringing up is they should also avoid the issue in Diablo 3 where people constantly abandon and respawn rifts in order to “fish” for the best ones.

Challenges will not be times based in Diablo 4… That alone will solve many problems we have in Diablo 3.

That also means that defining what META build is will be different in Diablo 4. It might me the most versatile build and maybe not the best build for 1 particular activity.

[Pe3eWe3e-21236]

@MicroRNA-1507

True, and more will do exactly that copying maxroll builds.

Yes, but you still ask for game to be even more casual friendly than that.

[DeadlyMouse-1231549]

Of course everyone using the same build will have the same skills and gear. That is sort of what defines “build.”

Variants cause incursions.

[MicroRNA-1507]

I want players to have the option to experiment without penalty for that experimentation.

[Pe3eWe3e-21236]

And you can experiment early on almost at no cost.

[Kargon-2720]

@Pe3eWe3e-21236

Diablo 4 should not be casual friendly as Diablo 3 is.

Of course it will be, that’s where the money is. Catering to the 1% over the 99% is shooting yourself in the foot as far as revenue goes.

[MicroRNA-1507]

Late game is different than early game.

[Shadout-2849]

@DeadlyMouse-1231549

Of course everyone using the same build will have the same skills and gear. That is sort of what defines “build.”

That is my view as well.

Of course, what matters here, which I also agree with, is that there should be plenty of viable builds that uses the same skills.

Like (very simple examples) a Crit WW build, a bleed WW build, a proc WW build, etc. using very different items, attributes etc. (and of course different skills beside WW).

It requires good and deep skill, item etc. design for that to be possible.
As well as diverse endgame content.
And high respec costs can do a ton to help here as well, increasing the diversity of viable buiilds.

@Pe3eWe3e-21236

That also means that defining what META build is will be different in Diablo 4. It might me the most versatile build and maybe not the best build for 1 particular activity.

That sure would be lovely.

@Esm-2321

If the endgame consists of a more varied type, lets say “rifts” where you want aoe clear. Boss rushing builds where you would want single target more. Then you have the option to specialize your build towards the content you want to run. If 1 build is best at doing all of the things then the design has failed IMO. But the game has to be able to offer a more varied endgame for different build setups.

@Cyonan-1183

I think part of the problem is that the game can become designed around this being standard gameplay, so builds stop being “play what you want” and start being “constantly switch and hyper specialize in the specific content you’re running”

Indeed.

@MicroRNA-1507

The fact is high respec costs lead to more frustrastion and less enjoyment for a subset of players.

Sure, and zero respec costs leads to frustration and less enjoyment for a subset of players.
A game can not and should not try to please everyone.

@Esm-2321

Not sure where you get this from? During my PoE time i have played many different variations of a Cyclone (whirlwind build) All with different strenghts and weaknesses.

Just something very simple like playing it with a 2hander vs 1h and a shield or dual wield will feel different and make you gear different. Or physical vs elemental based will make you have different gearing, or making whirlwind into a bleed build. So no, only D3 will force you into a very specific set of gearing unless you want to be useless.

This is exactly how it should be in a well-designed A-RPG.

So I also dont expect D4 to manage it. But sure would be awesome if it does.

[Schyzo-11158]

@Esm-2321

So my biggest problem with D3 and my biggest fear for D4 is that people who are playing the same build will want the exact same stuff.

i dont know what game D3 are you playing but i play several builds in fact i have almost all the builds, if u play with solo or with friend, if you and them are not harcore omegapros OTP meta players you all can play the build you want, if you only play the exact same build is because u want, not because you have to… i dont have to, so i usually play differnt builds if get bored

[Beefhammer-1932]

Yup. Don’t be a sheeple. I never pay any attention to metas. My 100 Barb was not the same as anyone elses.

[Beefhammer-1932]

Why not? D1 and D2 were casual friendly. It would just continue the trend.

[Shadout-2849]

@Beefhammer-1932

casual friendly

Too many people are really abusing so-called “casuals” in their arguments for just about anything. It is more or less a “won’t somebody please think of the children!”

“Casual” players are not some kind of monolith group that want one specific thing.
Some might want free respecs, others high cost respecs, and others yet no respec options at all.
Some “casuals” want immensely difficult games, while others want a game that plays itself.
And so on, for all other topics.

The only thing casuals have in common is more limited time to play than the ‘other group’.

[DonMartin-1373]

I will be playing multiple classes and builds every league.