Because that is a terrible design for multiplayer. Every person in a game being the same class is lame. Oh if I want to find Wizard gear, guess I better get a game full of Wizards!
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Man I couldn’t disagree more. There absolutely needs to be trading. Diablo III became a joke of a game the moment they removed trading, increased drop rates. Tried to give veterans “endgame content” via Ancients and then Primals, and an infinite power creep paragon system. wtf
Then they added more gem recipes so its absolutely trivial to get max gems. Added the ugprade rare recipe so its absolutely trivial to get any specific legendary. Added the free set and the convert set item recipe making getting to end game content a literal joke. ALL of this because there is no trading.
The last few seasons I hit 70 within ~2hours and was doing 90+ grifts within 12 hours. I was literally playing in the top 1% the first week and when the season ended I was still in like the top 5% having only played ~1 week (a lot of the top 5% are bots btw, yes bots are still very real in d3)
TRADING NEEDS TO HAPPEN. There are ways to accomodate both philosophies. We really need to stop pushing this NO TRADE vs OPEN TRADE arguement. Come on people there are ways to compromise and give everyone what they want.
A very well designed crafting system can help bridge the gap between needing to trade or not. You find rare items you don’t need you can salvage them and craft items you do need. No need to involve other people.
or
Multiple game modes could work wonders as well. Hell maybe they could actually do an offline mode that is very similar to D3 dubbed the (casual couch co-op mode) as well as a online open trading mode and a self found online mode.
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Force would be the key word there though.
I’m not complaining about the trading, I’m complaining about the which it gets implemented and how people cope to deal with that implantation.
Diablo 2 was free form trading, Diablo 3 is not free form trading thus people are forced to use an interface that wasn’t even designed for loot sharing but basically became a loot sharing tool despite it’s intentions.
When you force players to go through hoops to get things, it’s bad design whether not you intended it to be that way.
The end result is what matters. So what I am saying, is stop forcing people to jump through hoops just to do trading and just get a better bot detection.
Just like when diablo 2 was being develop they most likely did not intend for trading to be a huge part of the game but it’s untended outcome was amazing.
Also, I forgot to bring this up. Despite being trading be a main untended feature of Diablo 2 they actually buffed the drop rates of runewords to make it easier to find.
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There is literally only one way to give both groups what they want.
Two separate, individually balanced game modes.
And while that sounds good, it also takes a bunch of development resources.
Getting all your items through crafting is pretty much as bad as getting it through trading. That is not a solution.
The basic gameplay loop is “Go out and murder mobs for their loot”. Dont mess too much with that.
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that’s just the thing, i don’t think they are so much better than D3, i have thousands of hours in d3, hundreds in poe and less in games like grim dawn (only about 80 hours in that). While i can respect your opinion that trading is good, i disagree with it. Now if blizzard can somehow implement trading without nerfing the ability to farm the items you want by playing the game then i’m all for it… if i can start trading away old items i dont need while still finding items i want thats fine. My concern is that it’s not going to be like that, since my experiences in every other game with trading has been you dont really find hte gear you want, you find random stuff, trade it for currency, and buy the thing you want. Not the type of playstyle i enjoy honestly 
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Ive played enough d3. I know that i was and still am super dissapointed by it.
Its a completely shallow game with no depth. The system’s in d2 were ahead of their time and still cant be replicated.
Lobbies where everyone saw the level and armor of ur character, named games with passwords, a brief profile you could write a description in.
8. Yes EIGHT players a game.
Could you imagine, 8 people in a d3 game?
And thats just battlenets online functionality for the most part.
So whoes already gone backwards?
Less functionality, less choice, dumbed down stats, skill tree means nothing.
I was 10 playing d2 and lived with the consequences of the unforgiving environment that it was.
Make games how you used to, not this wowablo stuff. Make diablo great again.
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Trading requires human interaction and forcrs that multiplayer experience.
If thats how you choose to play the game.
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I guess we will agree to disagree. I actually play private D2 servers that eliminate bots and cheating and I love being able to trade an item for another item or else selling those items for runes and slowly building up my wealth in runes in order to buy a big ticket item. I don’t see anything wrong with that design. It’s like building up your gold in other games. I like a mixture of mfing and trading.
I have thousands of hours played in PoE and probably about 1k in D3 across PC and Xbox.
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People already mentioned how trading requires nearly no human interaction.
Nor should it force any multiplayer experience.
Multiplayer is its own reward. I dont mind if multiplayer is slightly more efficient than solo play on top of that, but it certainly shouldn’t be >100x as efficient because of trading
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human interaction of spamming a trade channel (D2) or using a third party website (poe), finding a person who has the item you want, trade them an arbitrary amount of currency (SOj from D2 or Chaos orbs from Poe)… then leave the game and never talk to that person again.
yea thats a great social system that promotes community…
where-as in D3 i’m in 8 different farming communities, my friends list is full of people that i can play speeds with… and i actually talk to alot of them.
/shrug
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I’m very much in agreement.
The one thing I think became very good in RoS was how self sufficient items became.
I think D3’s item balance is poor because it’s mandatory to do well that you stack multipliers but the progression to getting the items you want in D3 feels very good.
One thing I like is that legendaries+ become the only item you seek, this has a side effect of being an automatic loot filter. All the other games require loot filters because they drop worthless items frequently but D3 doesn’t need one, every item that drops is worth at least a crafting resource and when a legendary drops it basically says “this is worth checking”.
I also like that items are locked to the party that find them but I think it would be cool if for D4 they expanded this to also let you trade with guild members and friends who were in your friend/guild list when the item dropped/was created.
This would give people a nice reason to make big community guilds and share items and spare loot without going full 3rd party AH is how to gear.
My greatest concern with free trade is that they would do the D3v thing where it’s almost impossible to get the item you want without engaging in trade. I think full free trade brings other issues such as spamming,higher account hack rates and making the game 50% searching for items on 3rd party sites but I can avoid those personally, can’t avoid having a poor base experience though if they balance drops entirely around trade.
4 Likes
effectively it’s the same thing as d3 loot system, you spend X hours farming currency until you can buy your desired item… (Hope a person like Mathil doesn’t make a guide making your item more expensive… lol)… I spend X hours farming and getting drops until i just naturally get my item.
What communities? There is no 4 Barb meta. Do you even play D3 or just make everything up?
If I need barb gear I play barb. Doesn’t matter if in group or not. Sometimes Someone in group drops something that could be useful for another player, but that’s not “trading”.
And if someone wants to push it he plays 4 man meta and finds way more gear on his own than your “Barbshare” ever could if it existed.
“was” being the keyword.
Yes it is.
Ah, someone talking about something he doesn’t even know. Classy.
Because we want new content, new graphics, new gameplay all of it of course. Why not stick with D2 and forget about D4, huh?
we have that in D3, namely
And with trading it would have taken you 4 weeks of hanging in forums writing WTS/WTB threads. Sounds like fun.
If you detest it so much why do you even play it?
My words. Are there worse hoops to get things than hanging in trade forums?
Yeah, this. I wouldn’t mind if they opened D3 for trading again, keeping drops exactly as they are of course.
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That’s exactly why I said what I said. D3 lovers have told us to stick with D2 for years, so how about you guys stick with D3 now and let us get our proper sequel?
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- PoE is an awesome game, pretty much ruined by its trading.
- Grim Dawn is great - it is basically an offline game with rudimentary multiplayer support, so not very relevant when talking about D4
- D3 did something great by limiting trading. However, it is also an exctremely flawed game in pretty much all other design aspects. Hopefully D4 improves on those, but keeps trading off the table. Give us the proper sequel indeed.
3 Likes
… Dude… do I really need to reinstall Diablo 3 right now and take a screen shot of the community interface? xDD
Like if you wanna be so dead set on about being right while at the same time ignoring arguments that don’t support your opinion like… you know Blizzard North actually buffing the drop rates of Runewords despite the trading community feelings.
I’ll go take that screenshot for you.
The community interface was designed to bring the community together, but ultimately most people used as a way to trade items or get items. Hell, I remember getting 4 barbs together just to grind for Skull Grasp in GRs.
That’s not fun, or cool, nor did we interact with each other during the gameplay.
While I understand this, this is always gonna happen regardless Blizzard’s involvement or any game company involvement. Stuff just happens - PoE instead of trying to control the community and force them to play the way the developers want them to play are actually talking about putting one of the main trading websites into the game’s interface itself as said at their current live stream event.
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I am not sure that this is a true statement, seems more like a heavy assumption. Diablo 3 had a major shift relatively fast. Designed the game one specific way and then spinning up two different servers and then just having your economics wiz adjust drop %s doesn’t seem like that much trouble, but I don’t want to make any heavy assumptions either I am just saying depending on how many players you would alienate by picking one way over the other could potentially outweigh the added costs what ever they are.
Shadout one of the common issues I see with a lot of your posts is you assume all the downsides as a guarantee. Who said anything about getting all your items through crafting? You act as if its impossible to strike a healthy balance. Between smart loot and an MASSIVE item pool you could all but guarantee casuals will find hundreds of awesome items in the hours they play. Sure they may not find every single item but some items deserve to be found by few and only the most dedicated. Lifes tough in ARPG’s. I wish I could drive a lambo like the rich kids do but life’s also tough out here in the west. Some things need to be earned not handed to you.
Also why is crafting just as bad as trading. What is the big difference between “kill monster, item drops on ground” and “kill monster, rare crafting material drops on ground which turns into awesome item”. ?
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The point is that pretty much every other ARPG allows trading. Titan Quest and Torchlight 2 are more examples. Diablo 3 is one of the only ARPGs that I can think of that limited trading so severely. In order to compensate for this, they had to buff the drop rates astronomically and implement smart loot. Then came ancients and primals, which don’t really add anything to the game. They just needed something more rare because legendary items fall from the sky way too often. So, I think I’ll stick with trading.
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Ah, another one on the Diablo 3 forum who is talking big and not even playing the game.
They add progression which is the point in a loot finding game. “loot finding”, not “loot buying”.
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so you’d prefer spamming a trade channel with a bunch of currency in your pocket, rather than just play the game and earn better and better gear over time. i don’t get it… but cool if you have fun like that i guesss… I don’t.
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