D4 trading - why it needs to be limited or not at all

I gave 20, others gave more. Hope is in quantity.

not sure if anyone’s suggested this yet but what about a rare drop that’s used to make an item tradable? a for sale sticker in other words. only one per account at any given time and obviously can only be used to trade for other items with for sale stickers on them. i think this would add an interesting layer to trading and keep it as sort of a special activity. maybe each tier of item requires a different amount, uniques require 2 in order to trade instead of 1 for rares. this idea could be adjusted quite a bit

when i say rare, i mean higher level unique ring drop in d2 rare. not high rune rare but rare enough that you only see one every few days or more. for the record i would prefer open trade just trying to compromise. we’re probably never going to see d4 anyway because the disturbing us capitalist house of cards is falling right before our eyes which is definitely going to delay or destroy this project. let’s just hope blizzard can outsource this too :sweat_smile:

Well becasue this is still a D3 forum. Nothing stopping you from posting your D4 desires on the D2 forums.
And laughable that you think D3 is not a true successor, and D4 will be anything closer to D2 in anything other than looks, which most of the D2 crew here dislike.
The game plays more like D3, has respecs, will allow all skills to be maxed out so on character can enjoy all builds at their whim, and Legendaries will still rule the day.

It will definitely be different than all 3 games so far, but I think it it resembles D2 on the surface and in early gameplay, but in the long run it will be more of an arcadey mob-blasting romp more similar to D3.

Interesting idea, but the drop rarity you’re suggesting would be pushing the enveloppe a bit too far. ^^
Also, anybody can drop a “trading ticket”, which would incite people not interested in trading to participate, much like D3 AH did.

It has been suggested some times yeah.
It is basically another way to add a transaction cost to trading. It certainly could help somewhat. Likely much better than having a gold cost to trading, since gold too often risk becoming meaningless over time.

Unsurprisingly I would consider that way too common. Maybe averaging one every month. That would help to ensure you made the trades really count. Trading great item for great item only.

Then it would also be more like the counter to being unlucky that some people claim they want.

Not once bothered with the RMAH or normal AH in D3. Not everyone will trade.

NO TRADE OR LIMITED

Diablo 3 vanilla had both trading and Auction house and you saw how it ended…

Thank god RoS saved it…

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They need to quit making the game where u can run threw it in just a few hours

My only issue is that why do you care if other people are trading? I can understand botting but if legit players are trading or if someone wants to trade, why does that matter?

Personally as of this current ladder i’m playing I like limited trading (because there are so many bots) but I don’t mind if players want to trade and get specific items or get good gear faster. The only way it affects me is that they may have better gear quicker than me but I will probably have more xp, (charms if they have something like that), and a bigger base of items in my stash.

If all of their gear is quite a bit better than a players’ that’s not a cause for concern either; they’re either botting, they bought gear, or they played a lot. All of which are fine (except botting) imo. Also if gear is being bought Blizz should get a cut but the game should never be P2W either.

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Modified D3 system:

  • loot drops sharable with party only
  • primals should be salvaged for a separate material/currency which can be used to craft/roll other primals

Open trading = a game alive for decades after release.

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I agree with your overall sentiment, but there is a misconception here about trading especially from naysayers. Trading does not allow a player to “get good gear faster”, the gear a player gets from trading will generally be roughly the same value as the item they’re trading but more specific to their needs. For example, if you find an ist rune in diablo 2 you’re not going to be able to trade that for a jah ber or lo rune. You also won’t be able to trade that ist rune for an actual unique that is of similar value to then trade for a jah rune either. However if a player is attempting to “trade up”, sure they could trade that ist rune for some other unique item then trade that unique item for a combined ist and an Um or Mal rune. But this is not getting good gear “faster”. These are small incremental upgrades but they do not happen often. They might not find that trade deal for a whole week after finding that ist rune or they could be spending all their time in trade chat spamming and watching trade offers which means they would not be grinding to find additional new items.

Here’s why trading is not some means to “getting good gear faster” than grinding in the game. The person who instead of sitting in trade channels for hours on end trying to barely trade-up to go from an ist rune to having an ist and a mal rune, the person who has been grinding dungeons for the last several hours or days has already found several high end uniques. Finding additional uniques and items far outpaces the minute trade-ups one could manage to get from trading.

I’m certainly FOR trading but it seems the naysayers think that its the more efficient means of INCREASING your total value of items when its not, its more for obtaining the items more specific to your needs if you have items you don’t need.

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Gear more specific to your needs = better gear for you. => Better gear faster.
That will always happen with trading. Trading simply makes it a lot easier to get good gear.

Also, based on PoE, the idea that you need similar gear when trading for gear is wrong (just as it was wrong in D2).
You can buy gear cheaply, with very common crafting materials, way faster than you will find those items yourself.

This is not what is implied by a lot of naysayers of trading. Many of them assume that people can trade-up in the sense that you can trade an item you found for items that are worth more and repeat this process at a faster rate than if someone were to only kill monsters in dungeons which is the point you blatantly ignored. They bring issue to the idea that a player can only play the trading game and ignore and dungeon grinding completely to gear up their character without ever having to grind in a dungeon. Technically you can but I don’t agree that that route is faster than grinding dungeons. However, if someone wants to play that way, there is nothing wrong with that.

I think we all can agree that with open trading drop rates are decreased compared to a game with restricted trading and with restricted trading also requires character specific loot to only drop 99% of the time. So gearing “faster” is relevant by only comparing it more to a game such as Diablo 3 where trading is restricted and drops are much higher.

No, you are misunderstanding. “Similar” gear is not the correct word, the gear would be similar in value. This is easily understandable in the sense that an Ist rune could not be traded for a Jah rune in Diablo 2. I made this point that trading-up in D2 is a much more incremental process the majority of the time and depends on many factors.

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You certainly can do that. MrLama was describing in a recent video that was discussed here, how he had spent some D2 ladders just trading, without leaving town pretty much.
Anyway, yeah, that is likely not efficient.

I dont think that is what people are really saying though.
Seems to be that they (and I) are saying that trading makes you able to trade for much much better gear than you could possibly hope to find yourself.
Since finding item A is, by definition, much harder than finding item A,B,C,D,E,F,G,etc.

That I disagree with. It is bad gameplay imo.
But as long as there is a game mode without that, and droprates balanced around not having the ability to trade, I am fine with it.

Also by comparing between someone who trades and someone who do not.
The person who trades will gear up A LOT faster.

The gear you buy will often have a much higher value for you than the crafting materials (in PoE) that you pay with.
Of course, for the seller, the crafting mats has a similar or higher value, or they wouldn’t bother to make the trade. Exactly because the gear is something they didn’t want themselves. While you want it.
Bringing us back to trading making it a lot easier to gear up, since you can buy cheap gear from other players (or as we see in D2; you just get handed gear for free, because the items are unsellable).

As far as finding an item they don’t need to trade for an item they do need because drop rates are non-character specific sure but its intended that way if there is trading. Because thats just it, if a game is implementing trading then its baked into the gear progression rate for a player, so that “gearing faster” is the intended progression rate so its not actually gearing faster, its the standard. If that one player is choosing to only do dungeon grinding, another player is choosing to only trade and another player is doing both, doing both is what the developers intended because drop rates were factored in with open trading. If someone wants to play sub-optimally with respect to the intended way that is their choice. However, if you’re not out there grinding dungeons you’re not going to acquire more and more gear so trading and dungeon grinding are both required.

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And that is the problem.
Two game modes with different droprates can be a solution though. Probably the only solution, unless one counts not allowing trading at all.

It’s not a problem. Both are fun and are a part of playing an ARPG. D3 is NOT the standard, D3 was based more on an MMO approach. World of Warcraft has essentially no trading. D3 has polluted peoples ideas of what should be in and what should be out. If you don’t like trading go play a ****ing MMO. This shouldn’t even be a debate but because of people who had no experience with an ARPG at Blizzard who made D3 its warped everyones idea of an ARPG.

Somewhere somehow, a handful of D3 fanboys decided they hate trading so much because they think it’ll mean Blizzard takes away their loot pinata that drops 300 legendary items at the end of their “rift runner 3000” game.

I think trading implemented in a new iteration of Diablo can make the community of the game be more interactive than ever before. There are so many ideas for ways to get players to interact with trading floating around on the forums. Trading is the standard and its good and BETTER for the game than if there isn’t trading. There is no reason why the trader-haters should have their way. The D2 fans deserve a true successor and that means trading.

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What do you care about open trading if you’d just play offline anyway?

It’s possible, but I’d guess that overall the situation Shad describes happens much more often.

I mean, if you talk to proponents of trade from D2 they’re often going to remember the time(s) they traded an item worth 3 SoJ to someone for 5 SoJs.

That DID happen in D3 with the AH. That’s why people say that. The drop rates were stupidly low to encourage people to use it… and some people were good enough at it (or lucky enough) that they could simply play the AH instead of the game to be geared.

Well, yeah, there kind of is something wrong with any scenario that involves spending more time outside the game than inside it in order to gear characters.

Smart loot is only 85%, not 99%. And no, it doesn’t require character specific loot to drop that often, as long as there are meaningful ways to utilize the loot that isn’t character specific - or to turn that into character specific loot somehow.

Meh. The drop rates in D3 never needed to get anywhere near what they are now. Maybe they would have had to do an increase eventually when they started added more sets and legendary items, but the drop rates were fine way back with only Torment 6 after they kept the first year anniversary buff for RoS active.

Oh yeah it is.

Wrong, on both counts.

First, “fun” is subjective. Trading might be fun for you, but it isn’t for me. I dislike the baggage that comes with it.

Second, the only ARPGs that have really had both open trade and the player base to support it are D2, D3, and Path of Exile. There are PLENTY of ARPGs where trading isn’t present or essential.

And on another note… if trade is part of an ARPG, then are you saying everyone who played D1 and D2 offline did it wrong? Because none of them could trade.

Quite a stupid interpretation, really.

Based on what, really? There is nothing trading accomplishes that can’t be done another way.

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Or just dont have the concept of character specific loot at all. No class main stats etc.

I bet most D2 fans didnt trade much at all. I sure didn’t.

Trading didnt suddenly become bad in D3, it was bad in D2 as well.