Only my original post untill now, y’all are late to the party
Thats not how you get people to play your game tho is it.
Having an option of PvP-ing SC would be the exception though and not the rule. An extreme exception at that.
Only my original post untill now, y’all are late to the party
Thats not how you get people to play your game tho is it.
Having an option of PvP-ing SC would be the exception though and not the rule. An extreme exception at that.
But that’s exactly my point?
I don’t think there should be exceptions, it goes against the very definition of the game mode.
I can see how it would feel watered down with an SC PvP option in HC, but if Blizzard wants their player base to get to experience all of their product without having to play both SC and HC modes, my guess is you cant have only permadeath PvP in HC.
Maybe there are other ways to mitigate the huge cost in HC PvP though, like a funktion that saves your gear when you die in PvP, but that seems even more disruptive to me because the annoyance of lvl-ing all that time.
I dont see how non-perma death Pvp would invalidate anything about HC anyway.
HC changes the risk/reward balance. To progress through harder content, you have a higher risk of death. How far do you dare to go. That is fun.
But if, hopefully, PvP offers zero power progression, there is no risk/reward balance in it. It is just some side activity, similar to, I dont know, the card game in Witcher 3, or the various weird mini-games in Final Fantasy games. It can easily exist outside the game modes in a way.
Also kinda like how it does in Lost Ark, where your power is taken away in PvP, and it becomes its own, nearly separate, game (not entirely, since you get pve rewards from pvp there)
Now, that specifically should not happen in D4, that would be a really weird thing to do for an A-RPG, where character progression and gear is a core aspect, although there definitely could, and probably should, be some PvP modes where gear and character power does not matter too. Just not in the open world PvP zones.
People who play PvP usually build the character solely with that purpose. And HC PvP is pretty much it’s own thing with things like hardcore ironman cups and things like that. It’s not just about duking it out with others, it’s also the little race to make the best character possible before killing each other, that’s the primary incentive to HC PvP. If you remove that you’re just having SC PvP anyway. Diablo PvP has never truly been full PvP, it’s more of a PvEvP kind of thing.
Is that how it should be though? I can imagine Blizzards goal is, and if not, it kinda should be, that people running around in the game world might randomly think “should I cross into the neighboring PvP zone for a little while for a bit of random PvP chaos before I go back to the monster farming”. Rather than “Should I go make a PvP centric character solely for PvP”.
The latter surely is not how you get most people to do any PvP. Not that it should be a goal to get most people to PvP. More a matter of how accessible it should be to try it.
But then, as much as I am against having respecs in PvE, there is one place I think “respeccing” could be okay; a dual spec system; PvE and PvP, you automatically switch to your PvP build in PvP zones, and everywhere else it is PvE build So it wouldn’t really be possible to use it as a respec mechanism. Merely make the sudden PvP combat more accessible.
Hard to imagine many people would ever make a PvP specific character, let alone, switch to a completely different game mode, where they have to farm gear etc. from the start again, to participate.
Sure, and they would still very much be able to do that.
They could make formal PVP matches where you ask each other with an in game function. This could make it so the fight ends at 1 hp and you fight as normal. This would allow people to test their builds in hardcore which could be useful. There could also be open pvp where you just die.
In my opinion, yeah. The charm of PvP is building an entire ecosystem around it. The reason being that, unlike PvE, it’s an inherently social/human aspect of the game, and people who gravitate towards it usually are not interested in anything else.
Not if you remove permadeath which is the whole point of hardcore ironman.
Well, what I am arguing from in this thread
Fair, although I’m not much of a believer in too many game options. In my experience, it often has negative effects in the game’s community.
I dont think that is true. While most people seem to not care about PvP, plenty of games have people who are not very interested in PvP dabbling in it regardless. We see that in most MMOs. Doing a battleground here and there, running into an overworld PvP event as it spawns etc. Even if they are never going to play the real competitive PvP these games also have.
A-RPGs are always going to first and foremost be PvE. The PvP is just an addition. They are very similar to MMORPGs in that regard. Seems logical to focus your PvP design around the PvE players, and not around the few people who are truly into PvP. As they likely will be playing genuine PvP games, instead of your A-RPG.
Wouldn’t really be a game option or modes, any more than having 2 different dungeons are. Just different areas with their own rules in place.
In MMOs, the ability to duel one another is hardly taking anything away from also having arenas, battlegrounds etc.
ARPG isn’t a genre but anyway
I don’t really agree with that, but most of my multiplayer Diablo experience was D1 and D2. D1 people didn’t coop at all, it was mostly just duels (and people killing each other in town with hacked characters and all that good stuff), and D2 was more or less divided equally, at least the people I played with usually ran PvE just to farm the items they wanted for their PvP toons, but sure there was a lot of dedicated PvErs too. It was a significant part of the game.
No permadeath = not hardcore.
Eh, sure it is.
It would be highly surprising if PvP focused players were more than 5-10% of D1 and D2 playerbase. Likely way less. But then, plenty players might want a bit of both, even if they are primarily there for the PvE, they might still want to dabble into PvP once in a while.
Permadeath just means that when you get killed you stay dead. If you dont get killed, there is no death in the first place. So if the duel stops at 1 hp… permadeath is not exactly part of it.
They really need to pull their heads out, and drop the PvP altogether. PvP players in RPG’s make up probably less than a tenth of a percent of the players. They may be the loudest and most obnoxious, but their numbers are not large enough to justify the time spend developing PvP. Add to that the fact that most PvE players will absolutely resent being forced to PvP for any content. And no, PvP is not optional if good items, even purely cosmetic, are dropped. By locking content behind PvP you are giving the middle finger to the PvE players, and attempting to create some kind of elite status for PvP player. Probably because some dev is an edgelord who thinks PvP is soo cool. I have watched too many good games be ruined because of PvP and the type of player it attracts.
I really don’t plan to play HC. Played a little in D3, but it’s not for me I think. So my opinion doesn’t really count. That said, here is my opinion:
No exceptions! You die, you die. That’s it. If you want to practice PvP in HC, then find someone you trust, both get your cheat-death on, and gentlemans agreement that you stop dps when opponent procs. Not that different from what sparring with weapons IRL would’ve been, you trust your partner to not kill you during training, but they totally could if they so chose. You could even have tournaments like that, with rules that you stop dps after proc, but nothing hardcoded, only self-regulated by players.
But again, I’m not a HC player anyway. All respect to those that chose that path, and more respect the more unforgiving the rules are.
Detracting from your game by eliminating an entire game mode sounds bad for business. Make PvP interesting instead and make the bar for entry low, maybe the PvP:ers wont be only 10% of the player base in the future.
The PvP crowd is also nuts for buying gear that is not used by the PvM crowd, so that brings value in a way that you didn’t mention.
Then don’t have pvp rewards, simple. D2 never had those nor did the pvpers ever care about that.
We just wanna duke it out and fight against something slightly smarter than mobs sometimes
There should be no cheat-deaths though.
That is just a bad band-aid fix to a broken dmg balance, that ends up doing a lot more harm than good.
I would actually be totally for this. I am happy letting PvP players have their fun, but other than maybe a cool leaderboard, and maybe some titles, there should not be special rewards locked behind a PvP barrier.
My only other issue is when the game starts to be balanced for PvP. I could see a system like Lost Ark being good. When in PvP mode, all stats for everyone are given an equal baseline, and you spend your points and choose skills from there. That way you don’t have a guy with full primals and 5000 paragon fighting someone with 1 legendary and 50 paragon. Then it is really about knowing your class. This also keeps the PvP “balance” brigade from causing every class to become a boring watered down “balance” clone of every other class due to their constant complaints. The nerf bat is swung way too easily for the sake of PvP balance, and it usually affects the PvE game in a negative fasion