Again wasn’t about that. Just that at level cap there was more. Why do you guys insist upon twisting the argument and making it about something else. The whole thi g I was on was post levelling progression. D2 has loot hunting and leaderboards/ladders. D3 has loot hunting, leaderboards/ladders, and paragon. There is more. There is nothing more behind the argument. It was about which was better, which had more meaning(subjective by the way), or anything else. But go and bring up talent points and such which had nothing to do with anything.
PVP was there because of lack of endgame, people didn’t know what to do and so engaged in PVP. Pretty sure PVP in D4 will be empty as in D3, unless they make some moba types of competition. But even then the chance for success is very low. PoE has different PVP modes, but no one plays that.
From D2 can stay
What you want is a mod for D2. There are several D2 mod which players consider nice. There is no chance D4 or any future diablo game (I’d even say any future ARPG game) will suffice you.
I probably played diablo games more than anyone on this forum right now. Started in 1997. And I had a friend who just couldn’t move to Diablo 2 because he considered it too colorful, cartoonish, with bad mechanics, bad graphics, etc. This is because he clung to D1 so much. He never played any diablo game since then. You know, people have to learn how to let go, they are losing so much fun if they can’t.
Yes, there had to be more because after 60 there was nothing to do 
60 was much faster to reach than for example level 90 or even maybe 80 in D2.
GUESS WHAT. PARAGON 1.0 was added 3+ months after release so it was a fail on that part, they realized people had no progression so came paragon… They made max level fast reachable and understood they made a mistake as opposed to D2 where max level is:
- Unnecessary as opposed to D3
- Not D3 easy to reach
Data? Here:
D3 release - 15.05.2012
https://us.diablo3.com/en/blog/6968517
^^^ this is patch 1.0.4 aka paragon, released on 21.08.2012
I’m not twisting anything. And I’m not plural.
Yes which was in the case of D3 just level 60 until they realized something is wrong.
D2 much older game had both stat distribution which was then made paragon in D3 and a progression which took much longer to complete right with vanilla D2. No need to invent any sh*t. It worked well then and there.
Subjective but in my opinion definitely not D3.
I’m sorry they do, those are progression which D3 has kinda mimicked and only 3 months after release 
If by talent points you mean stat points that is. I don’t think I was talking about talents to begin with.
TLDR: 2000 D2 on release made a much more stable progression than D3, which had to resort to band aid due to fail on release. This band aid and whole paragon system was made even more stupid now with thousands of levels and infinite stat progression.
People whine now about botters being whatever paragon due to no end and that they can’t keep up.
.metacritic.com/game/pc/diablo-iii
Oh rly? RoS has better score so probably vanilla was so so at best.
Agreed.
I’m done and good luck. Not gonna take away more of your and my time, all of the stuff is here. 
The PVP was there because the game tries to imitate the reality in some aspects, people faced each other in duels, fights and murders in the so-called medieval periods, for the most different reasons.
It was so in reality and it is so in fantasy.
But I understand that there is also a part of the people who believe that the fantasy that occurs only in their heads is the real one, like those who say that the PVP was there for * insert a reason I want here *.
I think it’s cool for you (the player who played the most Diablo in the world) to associate a good Diablo 4 with a D2 mod, I hadn’t thought of that, but it makes sense.
Some of the best systems for an ARPG are in Diablo II, like the ones I mentioned, so I understand your thinking, although it is a little shallow.
Rescuing what we have done well without failing to move forward is a talent that few have, I know that people want revolutions and paradigm breaks, so when they get a Diablo 3 they complain in the forums. My view is different, I want the best that has been done even better, I think it is the best way.
No of course. Reality imitation was in D1, where you have friendly fire ALWAYS. In D2 they removed this reality aspect and instead make “fun button” to declare war. But actually I wasn’t talking about that. I said that in D2 PVP as a mode was popular for a single reason - nothing to do in the game (no endgame). So people used “fun button” to have some more fun in the endgame. That’s it.
In any modern ARPG with an actual endgame no one plays PVP, not because it is badly balanced or something - but because everybody has something to do. And those players who like PvP never play ARPGS - they play MOBAs, because these games are made precisely for that.
1 Like
What D4 Should take from D2 is:
D2:s Itemization - every tier of item has a purpose.
D2:s runewords - Runes did something special too.
D2:s inventory tetris
D2:s build diversity
D2:s limited respecs for free then it costs rare materials
D2:s very rare unique drops
D2:s undentified items - you can sell undentified items to other players
D2:s pace of combat
D2:s 3,4,5,6 sockets armor
D2:s jewels, skulls, gems
D2:s kanais cube
D2:s leveling progression 1-99, where it takes a long time to hit lvl 99
D2:s charms - keep it in a seperate inventory
D2:s skill tree
D2:s class specific items
D2:s Classes
D2:s Resource cost on spells instead of cooldowns.
What D4 should take from D3 is:
Endgame system + (10 other endgame systems)
1 Like
In addition to being the greatest diablo player of all time, you also know the motivations of all people, this is fantastic.
Summarizing what you said, despite all the imitation of reality was in Diablo 1 (without a doubt, because you said it) Diablo 2 was an excellent game, but only until the endgame, when it becomes fun , but this is totally wrong, because it is not what you want.
And as for your friend (sorry for the rudeness, I had forgotten about him), the one who really exists and is playing D1 today, traumatized, somewhere dark and lonely, wouldn’t it be cool to ask for a Diablo 1 rmk here? It is a health issue.
I think we are sentimentally aligned because of your sad history and because you are the greatest Diablo player in the world, I agree with you on everything except the things you write here.
Too much arrogance, how do you live with it? -)