No, your subsequent posts were you trying to shift the goalposts and try to claim people consider D3 a failed RPG with absolutely no facts to back the claim up.
And again, you have no evidence of how significant these numbers are for D3 total sales, and even if they were a significant amount of the first 12 million sales, there would be no reason for PC cafes to buy the game again after the first 6 months if people didn’t like it.
Yet you still have no proof that D2’s sales numbers would have gone up to 60-80 million in this hypothetical situation.
You have provided zero facts to show how D3 sales were distributed around the world. You have provided zero facts to show how D2 sales were distributed around the world. You have zero basis to make the extrapolation that D2 would have sold 60-80 million units more if poorer regions of the world were richer and completely overlook that you could use the same (poor) argument to extrapolate that D3 would also have sold dozens of milllions of units more.
No I don’t. You’re imagining things. You’re refusing to admit it’s a failed RPG. You’re just a mindless D3 defender. I enjoy D3 too, but at least I’m being critical with the game, knowing where it falls short. Liking something is to be able to see the flaws in it, live with it while hoping for it to get better. It’s not about covering things up.
Do I say they keep buying it again? Do I say they are significant? 500k-1M sales from PC bangs is either significant or not depending of each person’s standard. And I’m sure PC bangs has more than that number of PCs.
No they didn’t, because most of them who did the speculation already bought enough. Maybe some upgraded to RoS. Point is, after the 1st 6 months, there were not enough PCs left for PC bangs to buy more copies.
Because I’m talking to a person with IQ less than 100?
Which part of these statistics don’t you understand? Did you even get 30/100 score for math?
The only time a person demands statistic is when that one is losing an argument and at the same time fails at logic to be able to defend the argument. Statistics always serve as a support role for an analysis, never the other way round.
The whole point of the argument, is that a game that is disliked, doesn’t sell 29 more million copies after it’s initial 6 month sales of 12 million. Again, even if you consider these completely made up numbers that PC cafes bought 500k-1mil copies of D3, these sales would have happened in the first 6 months of the game, not afterwards.
You’re assuming that people in those regions would buy D2 in the same proportion that the US and EU did. You have ZERO evidence to back this up.
And again, you can’t assume that D2 would have sold that much more in those regions, and then pretend that the same argument couldn’t be used to increase D3’s sales.
60-80 million is a rather conservative approx already. Asian has much higher demand per capita for gaming than average Westerners, due to the lack of school and social activities. This is fact.
At least in many Chinese forums, it’s already approximated that between 100-150 million players played illegal D2 copies from 2002-2012 period, according to download statistics from crack games distribution websites.
Again, totally incoherent point. I dislike its RPG element but I like it as a game, so I buy it. D3 being a failure as a RPG doesn’t hurt sales as much as you would like to think.
Not everything needs statistics or citation for argument, unless you’re having OCD.
I’m pretty done with this guy. He has no evidence to back his claims, accuses me of personal attacks for pointing out his fallacies, and goes insulting others, moves the goal posts, still fails to provide evidence, claims the handful of D2 faithful as his overwhelming proof D3 is disliked.
He’s all over the place and not clear but blames us for not understanding.
One last point and I’m done, if you make a claim, then burden of proof lies with you. Meaning, yes, you need to support your argument with evidence, especially if you keepmmaking claims that seem made up just to fit your argument.
“Speculation” can be anything. It may have a “hidden” 100 million D2 players out there or none. So if anything, you should stop using “assumption” or “speculation” to back up your claims. Even if there is “100 million D2 players” that playing cracked/pirated version doesn’t mean that they are willing to fork out the money to buy D3 either or care about D3.
From what the official source had claimed, D3 sold 39 million and D2 sold 12-15 million, still doesn’t change the fact that there are still more people buying D3 not due to D2 hype or anything.
Also, you need to know that China has its own Diablo 3 version which is F2P. So the lifetime 39 million sales are pretty much has nothing to do with China. If anything, D3 China robbed and reduced the overall potential of D3 lifetime sales can reach.
Better than someone who provided the wrong data to back up a totally unrelated point. 39 million sales provide zero evidence about D3 being a good RPG, only a good overall game to play.
Because your argument and analysis is a joke. Only a guy who can’t form his own analysis, can’t be critical enough, and maybe has OCD, demand citation and data when he himself brings no analysis to the table. Citation without analysis is useless.
Your understanding is obviously messy, besides the fact that you’re not being critical enough about this game. Even a 3 year old can see my separate arguments, yet you don’t. Is your analytical brain worse than a 3 year old?
And citation without sound analysis is stupid and worthless. You lost the argument because you brought no valuable argument and analysis to the table. 39 million sales mean that D3 is a successful game. But none of the available data shows that it’s a good RPG.
Because they are logical. Don’t you dare say Blizz didn’t make any speculation for Chinese market when they developed D3? A 3 year old knows better than that. Asia has 4 times the population of US + Europe combined, yet this guy has the gut to tell me to
Yeah, tell that to all CEOs and economists in the world, be like: I have zero data on this market, all a speculations, so better just give up.
You thought you know better? RoS is still pay to play in China.
There is zero fact from that statement. It’s merely raw data you use to manipulate analysis. Or do you have something personal with the Chinese? Or Asian in general that you totally undermine their support for D3, aka support for D2’s successor? Clearly Blizz business team is ways smarter than you and they knew China has a potential of 100+ million D2 playerbase, many of which will continue buying D3 out of support simply because China in 2010s was ways richer than China in 2002. And stop asking for the impossible, there can never be any accurate data from Chinese market because it’s too huge for the Chinese themselves to get accurate statistics.
Only an IQ below 50 will say it’s none. Hope you’re not one of them? What universe are you living in? During my school time I have made friends or at least talked to hundreds of Chinese friends who are mostly male, and none of them had never played Diablo 2. Old sweet time when a D2+LoD CD was sold for like $1, which is affordable to any Asian kids even in the 2000s. Guess you’re too Western to even see that period. But I do, because it’s a part of my childhood, seeing hundreds of kids in my school rushing to CD store to buy D2 CD that costed $1, or any other game.
The difference between you and them is they have the data and number for analyses and conclusion and you don’t have anything to back up your claim.
And what does it had to do with my point?
Show me the proof that Blizzard has hard data that there are 100 million D2 players in China.
As I said before, I don’t live in Western countries. Maybe you should remember that instead of living in your small world and push your own biases narration on people.
No they have zero. It’s impossible to have good data on how many Chinese players played D2 cracked version. Blizz is not a god to know that. And there’s nothing stopping them to speculate for Chinese market when developing D3.
And what’s your point by mentioning that vanilla D3 in China is free? Don’t ask weird question.
They don’t need. Speculation is all they need to enter the market. Stop mentioning stupid statement and ask for the impossible.
Who cares you don’t live in Western countries. The way you showed zero knowledge of young generation in China, India, SE Asia tells me otherwise.
As I suspected, another one infected with OCD who always demand “hard concrete data and citation”, bunch of losers who failed at logic and have to resort to useless citation demand". Only a retard would need that. Smart ones use logic first before the need for any statistics.
Idk why you guys discuss why d2 is more popular than d3 considering they’re the same franchise 10 years+ apart and completely different games… There are too many variables that are impossible to clash… The one being discussed is a question of whether or not critical hit damage/chance is a fun statistic. I, personally, Don’t think its bad or good, but 4 stats on one item (nearly all d3 items) with 2 stats about crit means you MUST have both… perhaps it was just because of how we had 400%+ and 50% was attainable, but I think its just not compelling to “juice up” on damage when a polished game should be about balancing everything to be optimized and still struggle with the intended content… not added difficulty sliders in an endless quest for power that you will ONLY use to do more of that grinding. 95+ were prestige levels in d2. D3… is just an endless pit of despair seeking for items YOU KNOW will suck even if they’re the item you are looking for. IN d2, I was happy to find a rare sacred armor and excited to identify it… The chances of it being better than the popular armors were slim to none, but it was fun. In D3 I’d rather run around and have a magnet AND a blacksmith in my pockets to auto-salvage 99% of my loot… That sucked “in my opinion”. Critical hit chance wasn’t a choice either… It was a necessity. I dont mind 20% crit split on two super rare items, but making critical hit strikes deal only 120% damage (not extra). But if you want realism, then… you have several other aspects to revisit. I find it utterly boring to be forced into mindless decisions. I don’t like not comparing items on my own and have a something tell me “this is statistically better over time (Dee.Pee.S.)” when, tbh, that is not how A SWING OF A SWORD WORKS! You want realism? D2 had quite a bit by being simple. Do we want another d2? Nope… just try to be original and make itemization great again. Don’t trump yourself.
Which is why we should avoid repeating the same RPG mistake in D3. Make a dynamic system. I don’t see too much of a problem with those numbers when facing against trash mobs, but it’s a huge problem facing against bosses with such high CHC and CHD. It’s just weird.
Not much about realism but logic tells be you as a player should have tougher time again tougher enemy. D3 dev was being lazy by just increasing bosses’s HP and damages compared to trash mobs while there should be many more RPG elements proven successful in other RPGs being available to learn from.
How do you know that they don’t have? They have Netease for that. Can’t say the same for you. No company will throw a large sum of money into something without a good number or data to back up their justification. Speculation alone is not enough.
You are not very good in putting the pieces into one huh?
D3 sold 39 million copies has nothing to do with China because they have their own version of D3 which doesn’t require them to pay for the download to play.
So even if china has 1 billion of D2 players, it still doesn’t change that there are only 12 million D2 players that contributing to D3 39 million sales while the other 27 million sales are made from those people who don’t care/know about D2, at least according to the info that we got for both games.
Clearly you care where I am from or else you won’t keep accusing me being too “western”.
Also, I live in SEA. So you are not the only one with Chinese friends or have encountered the China Chinese here.
So you have no proof then. Good to know that.
Sorry, unlike you, I don’t deal with fiction and speculation. Until you able to show me the proof or data, I suggest you to stop throwing personal insults on people here.
RoS is still pay to play, and did contribute to that 39 million sales figure.
Netease, tencent or whatever companies didn’t and won’t ever know about the number playing D2. It’s an offline game, sold by nearby CD vendor. Even Chinese government intel agency didn’t have data on that, not mentioning Internet companies.
Which is why this stupid statement is so flawed. Many Chinese bought RoS. It contributed to the sales. And no matter how small, definitely sizeable enough to dwarf Western data.
As I say, you don’t see the real picture. Are you aware of CD vendors that sell D2 and other game illegally for dirt cheap price? Your answer alone is enough for me to determine your understanding of the real situation.
No need for that. You’re just having OCD.
It’s you who throw around uncultured argument with that OCD attitude. Put up a flawless logic before talking about data, mind you? Please have some basic education first. Everyone knows that analysis is one order of importance higher than data, and you don’t even use the right data to back your claim up. It’s void data.
Talking to people with zero sense of logic or analytical skill sure is tiring. Add to that is the one constantly in denial mode, which is stupid at best. Being critical is the key thing to a sound argument, before any data steps inside. You have shown zero evidence that Chinese players didn’t contribute much to the 39 million sales figure. Sorry to debunk you but for any scientific statement, a positive claim is made first and unless proven wrong, that statement stays true. None of us have the data, thus my positive claim has much higher ground than your negative claim, because it’s your job to bring about the negative, not my job to support the positive. That’s how analytical science works and also how evolution theory was created, by forming a positive claim and challenge the rest with proof of a negative claim. You are being illogical, counter-analytical, and going the reverse way of where analysis development is supposed to go. Good luck with that.
BTW, kids from Malaysia or Singapore shouldn’t be counted because they can never understand the situation where kids from poorer places had to go to CD store to ask for that $0.5-$1 CD containing the game he or she liked.
Until you show proof for anything you claim you are just a troll. You don’t get to make the claims you did, which were all assumptions backed by nothing but what you feel is correct.
I brought an actual argument, which is critically both games are equal and D3 was a bigger financial success, you continue to move goalposts from not a success, to not a successful RPG, to well the Chinese pirated tons of copies of D2 so that is why D3 did so well(still waiting on that proof, I’m sure you’ll have it any day now).
If that so? Source for that China D3 needs to buy RoS? It would be nice if there is a confirmation on that.
Even if they need to buy RoS in D3 China, doesn’t mean that they buy it due to D2 hype because neither you or me have the info that they are.
So if they don’t know that, how do you know that China has 100+ million D2 players?
In my place, D2+LOD is selling for $1~2. If you don’t believe that, you can check post history where I told others (in this forum) that my place is full of piracy where you can buy all cracked games, and pc softwares for a cheap price.
So yes, I know about piracy and pricing and even so, I am not arrogant enough to make “claim” that there are hundred of millions of D2 players out there without proof or data.
That is what people who has no proof tend to say. No surprise.
Logic without data as a back with data and number is useless.
Yes, keep making insult remarks when you have nothing to prove that 39 million was made due to D2 players. If anything, you are being illogical here because I am using existing sales data for both games and you are not.
Poor people don’t have money to buy a computer. Computer at 2000 was expensive as hell. If you can afford computer at 2000, you are not poor.
Is everyone ignoring the fact that in 2000, there were some old dirty men behind their desks with vodka and chips and in 2019, every 9 year old is playing PC games?
The possible audience increased by a much higher amount that the sales count
Dude, that bit is older than dirt. The days of PC games only being played by older men is so later 80s early 90s. I have seen plenty of people on this very forum saying they were kids when they played D2. PCs were prevalent in homes shared by all family members by 2000.