Just add it to the list of everything else you have quit. Please quit the forum.
Has he not already quit everything except the forum?
How would they do this if the full game isn’t done yet when the beta drops?
I didn’t mean literally the entire game in terms of every single lvl and dungeon. I meant, that we should be allowed to test the systems and the endgame. One or two lvls per system would do it.
But I’d say, don’t make excuses for them.
We got an unfinished game with D3 on release.
Do we really want hystory to repeat itself?
Demand for a real beta to take place, not a 13 lvl hype machine, that doesn’t allow you to see the imortant bits.
Uhh what? Diablo 3 was complete when it launched, it just sucked. What was missing aside from the PvP mode that they never got to work?
Has it occurred to you that “the systems” and “the endgame” that you’re talking about might not be ready in time for beta?
It sucked in so many regards, that it was widely regarded as unfinished.
But, let’s hypothetically say, that this was a myth and people labeling things wrong.
I’ll tell you what was missing in order to justify the term.
D3 on release was missing a big chunk of it’s itemization… as in legendary items with proportional stats, that would allow them to work on Inferno difficulty.
Those got patched in later. On release, only rares were viable.
lol.
That was never the intended design. By this logic then any game ever that has ever received any kind of patch would have been incomplete at launch. Diablo 4 wouldn’t be complete at launch no matter what they did because if they released any updates later that contained content/features/systems that weren’t present at launch, it wouldn’t have been a complete game.
Lacuni prowlers says hi.
I don’t know what you mean.
The game was never designed with only rare items to be viable on Inferno, or the devs never said that.
The legendary items, that existed were clearly made for the lower difficulties.
Not really. Say Paragon was patched postn launch. I wouldn’t have regarded D3 as unfinished due to the missing Paragon system, because it wasn’t advertised to have it in the first pplace.
However, I and many others were completely justified to point out, that the itemization is missing the legendary items.
It’s perfectly reasonable to expect viable legendary items out of a Diablo game.
It’s not a perfect definition of what the criteria would be, but there are some stuff, that would be perfectly reasonable to expect for the game to feel finished.
I don’t even remember if those were there on launch, I’d have to check. But even if they were, it’s one slot out of 13. It’s an exception, that confirms the general rule, rather than disproves it.
I also remember, that there were craftable shoulders, that were somewhat viable on launch. And? That’s 2 slots at best. Where were all the legendary and set items for all the other item slots? Not in the game, they didn’t exist.
Again, the viable legendary items for max lvl characters on Inferno were patched in later, months after release.
If you’re arguing, that the itemization felt finished on launch, this cannot possibly be in good faith.
…Do you think the values that were put into rares/legendaries were just a happy little accident and not intentional? Like, the devs just covered their eyes and threw darts at a board to determine how powerful items were?
It wasn’t, though. The legendaries just sucked. Nothing was “missing.” They were just bad.
They were.
No. The rule you laid out was that no legendaries were viable in Inferno. The issue is that there weren’t enough legendaries that were viable for Inferno, but that has nothing to do with whether or not the game was complete. It’s a quality issue. There isn’t a single game out there (not even Diablo 3 as it currently stands) in which all legendaries are equally viable for end-game content. Diablo 2, by your definition, isn’t complete.
Also have some more BiS items across multiple classes that are better than rares: Inna’s, Vile Ward, Lacuni Prowler, Mempo, Manticore, Echoing Fury, Zuni’s
It was finished. It just sucked. Every item functioned as intended by the devs.
They weren’t happy accidents, the items were clearly on part with Hell difficulty items.
As in they made the untested Inferno (which they admitted to not have tested properly, but simply went “And then we doubled it”) and didn’t bother to make legendary items for said difficulty.
The existing legendary items had stats, that correspond to a difficulty.
To claim, that items with nightmare and hell stats were the intended itemization, this is a bad faith argument. Theoretically, even if Blizzard did it by design, so that people acquire one set of rares, of what seems to be BiS, only to replace it few months later with a mix of rares and few very powerful legendary items and this was their “design”,
the player would still be justified to say, that the itemization on launch was unfinished.
It has everything to do with it.
D3 was incomplete due to craptastic itemization missing Inferno worthy legendary items.
D2, I’d aruge also felt incomplete in many regards, because it was poorly tuned in general… but that was only apparent post factum, after LoD, after 1.10 and so on.
With D3 it was apparent on release, because entire branch of the itemization simply wasn’t there.
Those were post launch with 1.03 or 1.04… Those weren’t on release… Stop lying…
Not sure about the Zuni and the Inas, so I removed them… The rest on the list were post launch.
Also, ignored.
I am not going to waste my time with trolls and bad faith posters.
I will not respond to your BS any further…
Keep defending Blizzard nonsense, embolden them to ruin this installment as well. Do as you will.
Only, you’re not entitled to my time.
Wrong again. ilvl 61 rares were set to drop in Act 1 of Inferno, then ilvl 62 rares were set to drop in Act 2 of Inferno, then again for Act 3. That was the intended design and it technically worked. They never intended to have legendaries scale the way they do now. That means the game was complete as they “intentionally” designed the drops for Inferno to scale in a specific way. It was explicitly designed that way.
No they wouldn’t. It was finished. The devs made the system, said “this is how we want it to work,” and they launched it. That is by definition “finished.”
Show me the design documentation that says the game was supposed to launch with a robust list of legendary items that were viable in Inferno. I’ll wait.
WRONG AGAIN
Patch 1.03 mentions “Manticore has one additional bonus affix” meaning it was in the game before 1.03
And I see no mention of the other items as being added in the patch notes. So uh, post a source or stop lying.
I should learn my lesson and not argue with people that don’t know the definitions of complete/unfinished.
Some might say that if you can earn enough gold to buy it yourself without the backdoor method you mentioned then it isn’t pay to win because you can earn it through grinding.
I had to be reminded that Blizz never mentioned Immortal’s monetization model at all. Unless you have a clip that shows otherwise or older articles that I wouldn’t be able to find that made such promises for Immortal then you have a point. But also just because they do it once doesn’t guarantee they will do it again.
Just because they said it the way they did in their tweets doesn’t guarantee they will even though you are making a semantic argument that they are. Making assumptions and being nit picky about their choice of words won’t help your case.
Is it still a possibility, yes, but it is not 100% definite by what they said. It can be made to look like they said that.
Also there are many different ways of saying the same thing. Not using the exact words you are looking for doesn’t make any difference. Nor does it guarantee it will be pay to win.
I understand what that one is saying. He is saying don’t do what Wolcen: Lords of Mayhem did only allowing players to test a small portion of the game. When the game launched it was full of bugs and other things that just didn’t work at all.
Agreed, I don’t want D4 to be another D3 or worse a Wolcen: Lords of Mayhem.
Itemization was terrible, tying the gear that you needed to beat the current act in Inferno to the act you are playing in was bad. Whites with a high enough ilvl were powerful items stronger than the higher tiers than white.
Good point then itemization in a Diablo game would be fine. It can be patched in years later. An endgame can be added years later and you still have a complete game right.
Agreed, IIRC the devs said that they wanted the players to have a mixture of legendaries rares and set items.
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Which was the case at launch. There was even value in having set items from other classes because they could roll affixes that weren’t traditionally found in that slot.
Of course you can… but with the other method, you can clearly earn it faster.
Who said, that the criteria for pay 2 win is, that if you can earn it yourself, then it’s not pay 2 win?
If you can purchase power and advantage, it is pay 2 win, period.
Say you wanna get a full set of gems. Say tier 3 lvl 6.
I farmed 2 sets of gems (11 gems lvl 6 each, therefore 22 lvl6 gems for 2 characters) within a week, I spent all I could gather on that… hell, I even sent myself gold from another character of mine, that is on another server.
The next week I upgraded one of the characters to lvl 7, legendary gems. I spent all I could gather on that…
That’s like two weeks of me holding myself back in terms of honing my gear and getting gear score, therefore I am two weeks behind…
Clearly the person, who purchases gold would be waay ahead. Not to mention, that if you reach the relic sets faster (where the set bonuses actually matter), you’d be waay ahead in many regards.
I am have 2 tier 3 wardancers on 2 separate servers, and one alt bard. The bard is 1370, the wardancer is higher (but still no relic lvl)…
It absolutely was. Not to mention, that in order to beat Belial on Act2 Inferno, you effectively needed gear from Act3 and 4. The way the game was tuned was waaay off…
Players got around it via minor abuses… I for one farmed Act 3 and 4 Via public games waay before I killed Belial…
Don’t take this guy seriously, though. He clearly trolls.
Everyone in his right mind would agree, that the itemization was unfinished…
Nice sarcasm, I doubt he’ll notice though.
I find it particularly funny, that for all the talks of D3 fixing supposedly broken stuff with D2, the D3 classic endgame was the Auction House.
Rifts were added with RoS.
The reason why it doesn’t matter to some if you can earn it. It is because you have a chance to catch up to them. More so if you play the most efficient way possible to get what you want. There will be those that already have it before those that have paid for it. Ones that have done the grinding to earn it long before they even started playing.
So you are worried about being behind others, why is it important to stay up with others or as the phrase goes keeping up with the Joneses (meaning keeping up with the ones of high society). Or in the case of gaming you feel you must keep up with the top players. What don’t like it when others are ahead of you. What do you do when you are not able to play as long as others. Do you turn to botting to risk getting banned just to keep up with others as far as hours played.
I am never worried about that kind of stuff. You can be though, the type that has to get everything done today. Meaning going through the entire game and getting the highest ilvl gear in Lost Ark in a single day if possible.
Here I am trying to say there is nothing wrong if others are ahead of you because they play more than you do.
I understand what you’re saying, but it’s still pay 2 win…
And mind you, I do play efficiently… to a point.
The moment it doesn’t feel fun and enjoyable, I don’t do it.
In regards to that particular game, I’d say I am playing decently, better than the average person anyways. Just the other day 7 players watched me mesmerized as I fought Argos for 2 minutes and killed him with my alt Bard… and I don’t ourgear the boss, as I enter with the absolute minimum gear score requirement of 1370 (because I am feeding any and all tradable mats to my Wardancer).
That does not mean there aren’t whales in that game, that are waay ahead. Chech this video and see how much some people are willing to spend to get ahead:
xxhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UXmp95RTvU&t=238s
I definitely don’t like it, when people are ahead of me, what I can clearly see, that those are people, who didn’t necessarly play more, but instead resorted to spending money…
But I never resort to cheating and botting or spending ridiculous amounts of cash.
In something like Diablo – sure, absolutely. Problem with Lost Ark is, that it has limits… as in, you can only get the big rewards from a chaos dungeon twice per day. You can only get the big rewards from a raid guardian twice per day.
Abyssal dungeons and raids are locked to once per week.
So yeah, you can do the math and see how someone is waay ahead through means of buying gold, yes.
from wht i seen smells not good
If audio documentation counts then there’s the initial reveal that describes d3 as “all about the loot”. Tongue in cheek or not, one would expect the top echelon of said loot to be existent.
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24/7
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To get an idea about the game, game play its systems etc.
Usually better to asses the game than the trial version, if any.
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Also… Boredom…
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