D3 Paragon has the best character progression in Diablo game

Personally I’d like to see a combination of both systems:

The paragon system would be built into the standard leveling system. Just like in Diablo 2, you’d get 5 points. You would choose to put those into STR, DEX, INT, VIT or the paragon system of other stats. They could even add other options into this as well: increased block, magic find, specific elemental resists, casting speed. All kinds of things.

That would give more choices: as a Barbarian, would you increase STR for better melee damage, or jack up that crit chance and crit damage for bigger damage spikes? Would you boost your weak Cold resists, or would you try to increase you movement speed to help avoid those attacks?

Things are still too early to tell where they’ll go, but I’d love to see more options being made available for players to create the build they want that is not based solely on items. Let us influence our builds via the leveling system as well beyond just talent and skill points.


So many threads end up this way the past few weeks…Can we not all just get along? I shall start:
:musical_note:kumbaya my lord…kumbaya…:musical_note:

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I dont want this thread to end peacefully, its a bad thread :v


Plz, don’t feed the trols! :wink:

please, dont feed this thread :v

The way it is, I reckon paragon should be capped at 5000. Every endgame content is pretty much more than doable at this level.

If it is a sarcasm, it’s a really good joke :smiley: Progression in diablo 3 Huh

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I think you’re taking it a bit far, but I definitely agree that a paragon system like D3 can have value.

The core issue is the infinite, linear mainstat scaling and that its normal to basically max everything out within every season.

A couple of suggestions for a better system, that is still infinite:

You can dramatically increase the number of affixes in the paragon pool, take out the attack/defense stats. Set a mathematical limit that is appropriate for each affix - as you put points in, you get less and less and never more than the limit, but you can put an infinite number if you wish. When your DR gets too eggregious you move on to another stat you like.

You could optionally keep the idea of rotating points into categories/groups of paragon affixes, or just allow folks to put points into what they want.

In this way, you can combine an infinite system with finite ranges to control power growth.

The next component is to not power creep the power of items like in D3, where sets do 70k% more damage. The power creep in the gear we wear is a massive part of what enabled paragon to get so out of hand, because higher and higher GR became speed runs for XP every season, and higher and higher amounts of Paragon became obtainable within a season. This doesn’t need to happen in Diablo 4, even if they increase the raw level cap with expansions.

I think we should get far fewer raw paragon levels per season. It shouldn’t be possible to max everything out, and different builds would want different paragon configurations.

Say the level cap is 40. Perhaps the average player should have 40-50 paragon levels at seasons end, and high end players between 75-100. A paragon affix could take perhaps 10 paragon levels before it hits heavy DR and you want to move off into something else.

Thats all tuning, but essentially have more choices to make, make it so each affix has a set limit you can never hit (DR + Mathematical Limit), highly improbable to get all affixes into heavy DR range, and far fewer paragon levels attainable in a season. No attack/defense as options.

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Yes, and you are the poster child of taking the middle road, right?

I think OP is exaggerating the case, but it isn’t misleading. They like the power scaling of paragon. They enjoy an infinite system that becomes a greater part of the players power. Lots of people do. Things you view as negatives others see as positives.

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Rolls on gear are just numbers, main stats from paragons are just numbers too. It doesn’t make it irrelevant, it adds on to your damage. I love the idea where the more you play the more you get stronger, and there’s nothing wrong with that. If you hate mindless repetitive grinding then the game is just not for you.


Nope. It is not unless you think putting points in STR for damage, Vit for HP, Dex for blocking and Int for Mana is more interesting than the system that offers more than basic stat increment for your character.

It does make it irrelevant. The more paragon you gain, the more your gear rolls become irrelevant.

That is an objectively bad design for an item finding game, which is sort of a cornerstone of the Diablo franchise.

If you’re trying to say D3 is a poor example of a Diablo game with poorly thought out systems then we’re in agreement.


Plenty of people view games with bad design as “positive”, it doesn’t make those games good.

For example, some of the top selling mobile games have horrible design in them and lots of people “see them positively” and buy those games. Do you think grindy KRPG’s or clicker games have good design? Because many of them make way more money than Diablo 3 and are more popular.

General public opinion is not indicative of quality. Plenty of people like bad video games, bad movies, and low-quality content. It doesn’t mean any of that stuff is high quality.

You can hold a middle of the road opinion and say Diablo3 has terrible stat / character progression design (because it does and it’s easy to demonstrate). Diablo 3 has other things going for it such as great combat animations and combat design. But itemization and character progression? Nope; definitely one of its weak points.


If they managed to make a somewhat decent game nokne would be hating it.

The paragon megatron system belongs into Super Nephalem teenage mutant ninja turtles greater rift runners and not in a diablo game.

Diablo 3 is a disgrace, its a failed abomination that they tried to stitch up but it died in the intensive unit after the operation. Just burry it deep down and forget it.


Character building is nonexistent, and the itemisation was like made by some dude with Alzheimer.


reported for trolling OP

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Gotta wholeheartedly disagree with you.

Paragon is one of the worst aspects of D3 for me. That and the trivial leveling up to 70.

No real character development, choices, which is a HUGE area of any rpg.

That and the phobia to manually allocate stats. I’m fine if they make an option to auto assign them for each class the recommended amount each level, or to custom allocate them, but dont’ give up on stats since they are there since D1, the C button, the character sheet. Iterate on them pls.


I don’t care and what you are playing now. All I know is all your posts are reek of D2 fanboyism as well.

We are not even discussing the same thing here. I guess you just read the title.

Which part that I am wrong here?

I guess true Diablo game is running infinite baal then?

Hate to break it but D3 is still alive until now.

Nope. D3 itemization is good. D3 Character progression itself offers more than simple investing stat point into your character and see he is now hit harder, tougher, can block more and have more mana.

I like the principle behind Paragon.

The idea that you log in and even if you only have a small bit of time you can always make some progress and that the progress is actually shared between characters.

I think there are a lot of improvements that could be made to Paragon to make it more engaging and I really hope for D4 they try to really flesh that out.


I have started a thread

suggesting how giving

  • character choices during levelling
  • improving the paragon system
  • itemisation changes to reign in some of the RNG

which will make for a more rewarding experience by having meaningful choices