Crimson's or not w/Mundungu?

Witch Doctor
1

I have seen guides with CC, guides without, guides with CC but rolling RcR off of zodiac, etc.

Is there a resource anywhere that gives detail on when CC should be used, and if it is used, how important Cooldown and RcR are (particularly whether RcR should be rolled off Zodiac because Attack Speed is better)?

Also, attack speed. The only resource I can find is the old SvR guide that says, essentially, that you want a 21 fpa if you’re going to channel (there’s a lot more detail). That guide is old however, is that still correct? Has anyone laid out the required rolls to actually get to that point in either solo or a group setup?

2

The build is overall very flexible and you can adjust to circumstance and preference very easily.

That said, I feel if you don’t run Crimson’s you had better have something nifty going on (Squirt’s?), b/c you are leaving a good chunk of damage “on the table” so to speak. I also found personally that I preferred the DR and damage combo that it offers… Been at WD a loooong time…done enough pure glass cannon, thank you.

Not sure what guide/video you are talking about or looking at…but you should not even be thinking about ORotZ… Between the handful (don’t have to go overboard) of CDR rolls you will have to empower Crimson’s and the omnipresent Grave Injustice…you don’t want or need ORotZ.

3

Lex has it in his T16 and solo GR speed builds. Maybe he’s just not experienced enough with WD.

I think I can figure out the solo bits ok, but I have no idea what group play with this looks like.

4

Generally speaking
Solo - no CC
Group - CC please

Attack speed mainly buffs phantasm dmg which is important in group trash kill and solo GR pushing.

The reason for not using CC in solo push is survivalbility - unity by itself is better defence than CC 3-piece, and you can also throw in transcendence belt for even more functional defence or witching hour if feel like taking risks

5

So confusing, this is the opposite of what Wudijo recommends. This is what I’m talking about - has anyone laid out the options with the math anywhere?

6

A lot of people have different recommendations. It’s hard to put numbers on belt of Transcendence because it’s not a set% damage reduction.

It’s personal preference. Choose either way and it won’t matter much.

7

I haven’t come accross any and I doubt there would be one specifically for that purpose unless someone saw your post and decided to make one. You do get bits and pieces of information here and there though.

Nevertheless the math/ logic is not difficult (it’s not like we are analysing frames or server behaviour here) and you should be able to form your own opinion.

Here I don’t mind delve a little deeper for you.

It’s basically CC+RORG vs one ring/cube slot + one belt. Why ring/cube not belt/cube? Because season 20 theme, and there just isn’t a 2nd belt good enough to take up a cube slot.

For the CC side you are getting:

  • Remainder-multiplicative 20% CDR
  • Remainder-multiplicative 20% RCR
  • Multiplicative damage% increase by sheet CDR
  • Remainder-multiplicative DR% by sheet RCR

(Note for any remainder % reduction, additive is better than multiplicative; whereas for any % increase, multiplicative is better than additive.)

For the other side you just really have to look at your actual gear setup and “mainly” ask yourself two (actually one more but later) questions:

  1. What absolute stats changes am I trading at here?
  2. Does an absolute stat increase/decrease translate to real benefits/detriments for my gameplay (bounties, T16, GR speed and push)?

The first question should be the easier one, you just have to do the math and the math is simple. E.g. assuming your other side’s option includes Unity, is your sheet RCR over 50%? If no, Unity gives more DR; if yes… man why are you gearing for RCR at all?

The second question requires critical thinking and even your own skill level is one of the factors, hence why I mentioned “generally” in my previous answer.

Here are a few other example factors for consideration:

  • Am I already oneshotting everything? Do I need another ~50% damage increase?
  • Am I dying more than acceptable? Is the dying actually hurting my efficiency? Can I improve my survivability by practicing the playstyle or should I forgo some damage for defence?
  • Am I managing my resources well? Are any of my castings unnecessary and therefore should be eliminated?
  • Do I really need additional CDR? Am I fully utilising Grave Injustice or do I feel compelled to stay away from monsters in order to stay alive?

Based on this logic, to expand a bit on my previous answer:

  • “Generally” CC is not preferred for solo play because the new set is already providing top tier damage and WD solo squishiness is the known biggger issue. T16 merely requires reasonable gears for enough damage and GR90 speeds require somewhat optimised gears for enough damage. Going up further, survivability becomes a even greater issue. Also split bounty is more solo than group play.
  • “Generally” CC is preferred for group play because monsters would have much more HP, your role would be trash kill DPS, and you should have teammates keeping you alive, so every bit of additional damage as well as other stats ensuring rotation consistency are important.

Finally the biggest missing piece to the puzzle is the actual stats of your gear pieces - do you have really well rolled or ancient RORG/Unity/Withcing Hour/Transcendence Belt/CC?

Hope these would help you forming your own opinion based on your actual situation.

1 Like
8

I have tried running the following things:

5 piece + RoRg + Crimson:
This is a strong setup and very usefull if you run in groups.

6 piece + fetish belt + voo’s (cube: barber, MoJ, sacred harvester):
This build is also very strong but has less cooldown. This means you can either choose to reroll the cd stats for dmg and defense and get rid of bbv or leave them in. I prever to keep them in. Very nice to play and you should try it to judge for yourself.

Also tried the 6 piece version for switching the Voo’s for tasker and theo and frostburn where taskers is the stronger option but the frostburn might be great when playing in groups that have little stun or slow effects.

Just play around and have fun. Going for the build the nr1 player has doesn’t mean its the best build for you! Hell…I even tried the LoD variant with a Thing of the Deep and In-Geom for quick lower GR (70- 80) and it was totally viable and fun to play and build. Also added some gargantuans in it because the work nicely wit cold dmg…very funny hybrid build to play but the gargs are even with the ring cubed + pet passives and skill buffs on gem way overclassed by SB…but hey…still fun to play.

If you are a casual seasonal player like me that doenst need to be in be in the top 10 every season the just pick a strong but boring build to gain paragon quickly but in the meanwhile gather the items for a build you want to play or create. I found out that for me just playing with the strongest build was too boring to keep me interested in the game. At that point it would come down to just copying a build someone else thought out and just brainless farming to get the best gear for it. Now I enjoy the game way more by setting up some silly viable builds.

9

It’s the other way around, at least in NS solo pushing and 4p 150s.

1 Like
10

I would be keen on your opinion. I am suffering from what would be called, in DotA, “chain feeding.” Dying nullifies all Harvest stacks, and trying to get them again…tends to kill you. So I go from no deaths and a nice progression cushion to boned in 30 seconds.

11

Try unity for a bit. I ran unity for a little bit to get everything else in order (I am getting much better at setting up stacks of Phantasm and blowing things up). I’ve switched back to Endless Walk set, which also provides a bunch of survivability during most dangerous times, and now feel a lot safer since I have a little more paragon and better rolls.

And yes, leaderboards contradict the advice above pretty strongly. All 4-man WD are using Endless Walk, CoE, and Witching Hour - not RoRG and CC. All top solo WD are using CC, I presume not because it’s more defense than Unity, but because it’s some defense and a bunch of dps.

1 Like