Chris Wilson (of PoE) talks about Blizzcon

Its $20 for 6 premium tabs. You get 5 tabs for free as default, and although you kinda have to buy stash tabs when you’ve played for a certain amount of time, the value you get from this game is huge.

I generally dont like free to play games, they rub me up the wrong way. But Path of Exile and Warframe have very fair and generous models, and I always like to highlight companies that get the balance right.

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The main difference between PoE and other F2P monetization models is that even under the argument that stash tabs are borderline “necessary”, its only a one-time pay wall for convenience that factors in at the end-game not at the beginning or middle. So a person knows well before needing to spend a dime whether its worth it to them or not to buy such things.

Also, the supporter packs are always the best value because you get all the cosmetic goodies plus the $ value in points. Then you wait for a stash tab sale on the weekend and you basically set for life… or at least until you see that automation herald effect.

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People need to quell their expectations(just like people should’ve last year about Blizzcon) about PoE. I’m not really saying this from a D3 vs PoE perspective…just as a PoE fanboy really. PoE 4.0 isn’t going to magically fix the issues that have brought valid criticisms upon them aka their graphics, combat, polish, etc.

Just think of it like WoW more or less, yes in Cata they updated their world to look less dated…I think it was WoD where character models started finally getting better(or was it Legion?). GGG will take gradual steps(4.0 is one of them) to help…but at best the game will eventually look/feel comparable to D3. A theoretical D4 is going to raise that bar much…much…higher.

PoE’s strengths are D3’s weaknesses(and vice versa). What’s important(and what’s been touched upon in this thread)…is that I’m optimistic about PoE’s game plan to fight D4. They’re going to bring new ideas to the arpg genre(as they’ve always been doing). This is only going to help…just like whatever D4 brings to the table will help.

Like it wouldn’t shock me if PoE 4.0 expansion the highlight isn’t even new character models. It’s something that change the very core nature of the game out of left field. It’s those kinds of things needed to combat D4.

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Notice that POE has always marketed itself in comparison to Diablo. Rather than standing on its own and developing a unique identity, it’s been sold as the Diablo-clone for Real Diablo Fans who love Diablo. If Blizzard were to announce that they had canceled all future development of the franchise forever, it would be a lot harder for GGG to draw attention as competitor in this increasingly crowded genre.

Marketing tactics like this is savvy, but also kind of cheap. POE has no identity apart form being in the shadow of a giant.

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The engine is fine, it’s their netcode that needs massive work. I’ve actually found that with a high enough attack speed the server won’t register all of the hits. I have to dial down my rate of attacks and end up killing faster by attacking slower. That’s one area, and a key one, that all of Blizzard’s games have over just about everyone else - their netcode is superb.

There won’t be a PoE 2. The 4.0 mega-expansion is likely to revamp key components though. Hopefully for the better. The better the game, the more pressure is on Blizzard to match them. Competition that’s actually real = better games for everyone.

Yeeeeeeeaah. Tower defense. Ugh. I mean, come on, it’s an ARPG, not a MOBA. I’ll actually be skipping Blight (3.8) and progressing my Legion character in Standard after the Legion league ends. And they’re going to have to think long and hard about the “10% problem” wherein older league mechanics are limited to maps only and have only a 10% chance to spawn. I’d rather pick a league mechanic and have it always available to me in Standard (this is something Blizzard needs to think on too for the non-seasonal players here).

I’m not sure why everyone keeps ragging on the graphics engine. It’s on par with D3’s, and in most cases it’s actually easier to see things than it is in D3. And you can run with the map open while in combat and moving around just like in Diablo 2.

The graphic styles are different, but they aren’t bad by any means.

Eh, it depends on your region and platform. Console trade is abysmal, but the PC trade system relies too heavily on poe.trade. It’s basically the D2JSP for PoE.

SSF kinda needs a boost actually. I haven’t been able to make any of the builds I want because either the items are all Elder/Shaper-only (thus require heavy penetration into the Atlas), or are acquired primarily by divination cards, which have a huge penalty in drop rate as you level up beyond where they drop. And because they’re area restricted (targeted), SSF hardly ever gets them legitimately without doing the whole gain a level > Scour Orb + Scroll of Wisdom to de-level your character back into farming level range. The only reason I found even half of the divination cards I wanted in Legion was because I farmed the hell out of the monoliths. But when the league ends, they go away except in maps, and even then have only a 10% chance to spawn, again, only in maps. SSF needs the drop penalties gone. We can’t trade, and we want juicy builds too.

Legion ends on Sep. 3 and I still haven’t found any unique bow worth using (I want Windripper or Chin Sol so freaking badly…). They just will not drop and damned if I can get the divination cards to drop that could get them for me (and only a chance at that since any bow can be gotten from those cards).

Legion ruined the group economy, but it’s given SSF a sorely needed lifeline that goes away in two weeks. :frowning:

Legion only highlighted what the real problem is: native drops are abysmal and only league specific flagged areas have good drop rates and/or drop mechanics. Legion’s monolith and Domain of Timeless Conflict mobs have enhanced drop rates and can drop things like incubators to help you get items faster. Standard doesn’t have that, and loses nearly all of the benefit Legion as a league brought for the reasons I stated above in this post.

Graphics doesn’t make the game. Diablo 3’s graphics aren’t really “great” either. In fact, D3’s Achilles’ Heel is the graphical overload. More often than not I die to things I can’t see because spells or abilities are covering up important “OMG STOP STANDING IN THE FIRE!!!” effects. PoE’s graphics may be dated more than D3’s are, but I run into that problem far less often. It’s still there, but nowhere near as bad as in D3.

Of course, for now all I can do is dream about glittery graphics that are also balanced such that they don’t overwhelm at the slightest use of abilities. Effects aren’t very useful if they’re covering up what’s killing your character. :wink:

That isn’t pay to win. Stash doesn’t aid you in combat, it’s a QoL thing. And remember, you do get the entire game for free, including expansions. If you factor out the absurdly priced cosmetics designed such that only whales can afford them and break it down to just the QoL items, you’re coming out to maybe 1.5x what a decent AAA game would cost in full at launch after you’ve gotten your stash tabs. The key there is to maximize your points when sales happen. Buy the First Blood starter pack, get the currency, fragment, divination card, and map tabs while they’re on sale. Only get the other tabs when on sale too. You’ll end up with more stash than in D3 for roughly what you paid for RoS + Necromancer DLC (if you go hog wild with more than two quad tabs, then it’ll equal the price of both D3 vanilla + RoS + Necro DLC, but that’s a personal choice).

Both games have their systems and learning to maximize both is key to getting the most value. But PoE isn’t pay to win, at least not on GGG’s end. It’s pay to win on the trade market end, which is why I chose SSF there. Just wish SSF would lose the drop penalties for overleveling a zone.

See above for how to do it. Quad tabs on sale are equivalent to $12 (120 points). I got two of them and that should hold me for a long time, if not forever. With the First Blood starter pack you get 200 points and an extra regular stash tab. Use the points during a sale to get the tabs mentioned above. Use sales to get the rest. I’ve got two quads, five premium tabs (I paid extra so I could name them as it really helps in my case), the currency, div card, map, and fragment tabs.

They’re gonna need to make another currency tab ASAP though. Legion splinters, emblems, fossils, and things like engineer orbs still have no slots in currency tabs and the “Misc slots” are all full even with stackable fossils. I suggested to them to lower the cost of the first currency tab and make it so that the combined total of the two necessary currency tabs (if implemented) are only 120 points so players aren’t being screwed and it’s at least a perceived value. But I’m only one voice, so…

You only get four. You get a fifth if you buy the First Blood supporter pack (one per account). That should be the first purchase for any player, and the points should be held until a stash tab sale.

Now, with all that said, I truly hope GGG does make some serious headway in both performance and stability in 4.0. The better they are, the better Blizzard has to be to go toe to toe against them. I like competition. It breeds innovation and value. If either franchise died right now, the remaining franchise would very likely end up worse in the long run due to lack of competition to spur the respective developer into making the game better.

Notice that D3 has always marketed itself in comparison to Diablo. Rather than standing on its own and developing a unique identity as an action arcade game comparable to that one Gauntlet Legends machine in vintage arcade centers at the mall, it’s been sold as the Diablo-clone for Real Diablo Fans who love Diablo. If Blizzard were to announce that they had canceled all future development of the franchise forever, it would be business as usual for for GGG to draw attention as competitor in this increasingly crowded genre.

Marketing tactics like this is savvy, but also kind of cheap. D3 has no identity apart form being in the shadow of a giant(D2).

FTFY

How is their engine fine since it is a 2D like those of a 20 years old game? This pretty much instantly kills a ton of possible gameplay interactions.

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Their engine does have z-axis collision, so it isn’t entirely 2D. In fact, if you pay attention to the zooming in that happens when you open the inventory screen, you’ll see it isn’t really 2D. It’s 3D, just with a different art style. If it were 2D, when zooming in it would pixelate. It doesn’t in PoE. It’s capable of the same interactions as D3 is.

Why then you can place tons of mobs next/over each other in PoE if it is pure 3D? D3 and TL:F clearly are 3D, but PoE view/art style is annoying as hell.

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You disliking the art style doesn’t equate to it being 2D or 3D. And D3 can get tons of mobs stuck on each other too. That can happen in any engine. The only thing that would prevent stacking is forcing collision detection in every case. What you referenced only has to do with collision, not the type of engine.

I happen to like both D3’s and PoE’s art styles. They’re different. But just as with the statement you gave in your post, that’s an opinion, nothing more. And my opinion isn’t going to be the same as yours, or anyone else’s. It’s mine. Yours is yours. Art is subjective that way. :slight_smile:

By the way, go stand on some stairs in D3 and fire off an arrow on a DH. Aim down to the bottom of the stairs. Notice the square “step” pattern it makes? It doesn’t travel smoothly. It used to prior to one of the patches in RoS. Now it does that god awful 2D-esque travel animation. PoE’s attacks don’t. Functionally they work just fine. But D3 has its annoyances too, just as PoE does.

Ok, then D3 and TL:F have different collision detection than PoE and it is quite noticeable and annoying, and many people refer to this as “engine” and as “crap” and it is not only personal opinion, make a poll for it and you will see that even die hard PoE fans hate that aspect.

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The only ones that hate that aspect are the ones for whom graphics are more important than anything else. And again, it’s subjective. You’ve got just as many people that don’t care for D3’s graphics and call them “cartoony”. Arguing about graphics isn’t going to get you (or me) anywhere. Just accept that they are what they are and focus on the meat - the gameplay.

Exactly the gameplay suffers from these wrongly made graphics.

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You’re just arguing in circles and it doesn’t even make any sense. The engines have roughly the same capabilities. The difference is in the art style. You really need to not get so hung up on graphics being the be-all and end-all of gameplay. They aren’t. They’re icing on the cake.

I am not going circles man. Anyone will tell you D3 gameplay is light years ahead of PoE gameplay. Reason for that is the engine (or call it whatever you prefer).

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I mean PoE generally runs much less smooth(fps wise), and some of the models look way out of date in comparison to even D3(pretty sure they’re addressing that in 4.0 though since I recall hearing it in a Chris Wilson Baeclast Podcast a while back).

I agree…D3 wins this battle…but there are some things I like about PoE too. I think the best example are the spells/lighting itself. Another, is the relative speed of the animations(in end game if you get a right proper build). The only way I can describe it is that you genuinely feel the attack speed/cast speed you equip on gear/passive/support gems(and it’s genuinely faster than D3…well it feels faster to me anyways). I think what we’re ignoring here is the reasoning on why the engines function in the way they do.

D3(if you can even crititcize it other than the cartoony stuff)…did everything they did with in mind of being having modest PC requirements(as they do with all games.) Your animations go off slower, I think the game blocks other people’s abilities somewhat(from a graphical sense). They want you to be able to maintain 60 fps easily.

PoE did the best they could with what they had(at the time). I don’t think they have a genuine goal of being accommodating to a mass audience. They want to just make the game they like, and they like ridiculously fast casters/attacks/animations/blinding screens/fps tanking in groups or heavy density unless you have a 5k dollar computer. They could use a PoE 2(in which they might revisit that philosophy), but it’s not happening. Period.

Has to see what is happening in Diablo and copy it before getting into the details

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Have you even played Path of Exile? It’s nothing like D3…why would they copy them? What are they going to copy…D4’s engine to look better than a 2005 game? PoE has plenty of content already thank you very much. Good luck catching up theoretical D4 that we don’t know exists yet.

PoE started off copying D2, and has done everything over the years to define itself as its own entity in arpg’s. This isn’t out of some misguided arrogance they have like there’s a bone to pick with D3 or something. The devs just genuinely love all arpgs, and talk about various arpgs(and other inspirations) for every content patch they implement. Not all of leagues in PoE are perfect, but to make bold claims that PoE is nothing without Blizzard(well aside from Blizzard North) is just straight up delusional. If people are going to make that argument, then I’m going to argue that D3 is nothing without Blizzard North either. Lord knows D3 did almost nothing to evolve the genre other than copy elements of WoW into it and remove any element to the game that confuses even a 5 year old at character customization(thanks Jay Wilson). At least PoE is taking risks on a quarterly basis.

If D3 still supported their game for more than just meta shakeups and quality of life, who do you think would be copying who? Did WoW come out of thin air in the MMO market, or Overwatch and TF2? No, Blizzard assimilates everything(and quite frankly, they used to be better at it).

The hypocrisy in this thread(and in general) is real. Neither franchise are perfect atm, and both have strong points which they can learn from each other to make the ARPG genre stronger as a whole.

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D3 Combat, Elite Affixes and GR Timer Attacks did evolve the genre. I expect to see alternatives of these in D4. PoE also tried to re-create the GR experience with the mines expansion, but they ended up with the scraped D3 trials.

True, and yeah I’m being a little over dramatic on D3. I’m just as excited as the next person to play D4(and I’ve gotten over 1k hours in D3 so I’d say it was a worthwhile experience).

I just hate this idea that people can’t self reflect on this whole “sports team” mentality and realize…“hey maybe these people are playing the competition for a reason” in regards to PoE. They’re doing good things to their game, and it’s worth Blizzard at least understanding why when developing D4.