Again, I’m not discussing the balance itself, but the logic behind the nerf 
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there is no logic. look at it differently. what is this company about? but certainly not for balance or satisfied customers. they are only interested in money and only money. everything else doesn’t matter.
as always, the goal is to make more money. they can do that with the sale of necro addons (cheap wd reskinn).
necro should and will be stronger. wd has always been super bad in solo up to s20 and will hardly be played in groups in the future.
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Of course they have to sell Necro packs, I understand that and won’t complain…but idk, at least use some common sense when you modify stuff?
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Try the necro
They r not going to sell any necro with the changes with its current state
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Tried the new set as a boss killer…completely agree, multiplier is way too low to be competitive even at 120
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There’s a blue post here - PTR Starts 2/6 and additional Thoughts - #95 by Apache222-1831
"It’s more that Phantasm (specifically) is treated as a pet, which wasn’t really ever intended, "
It’s a bug. It’s a bug that’s been around since LoN SB was the top WD build a few years ago. They attempted to fix it once but couldn’t get it work so they reverted it. I’ve been waiting on this bug fix for years because it affects buffs to Taskers and Jeram.
It’s a bug that affects Helltooth. This needed to be fixed before Helltooth pet builds can be buffed.
I’ve been comparing leader boards for highest clears under P4000.
#84 - live
P3851 - GR136 - 13:55
#85 - live
P3285 - GR136 - 14:02
#9 - PTR
P3787 - GR132 - 13:39
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I don’t think you comprehended the OP’s original post very well - he’s not complaining about the nerf, he’s complaining about how the nerf has been enacted by Blizzard - phantasm is a pet, and it’s nerfed by not getting the mask of jeram buff etc, whereas every other pet still gets it. It lacks consistency and feels cheap the way that Blizzard has implemented this change.
The build is still very strong. I don’t main WD, and I’m not great at playing the character class, and yes, I 100% agree that it needed a nerf, but I can see the OP’s point and it is valid.
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Your talking abou this:
Made sense, i didnt really care to say anything about it. I already acknowledged this and understand he’s trying to say it should be nerfed in a different way.
I’m talking about this:
Which it didnt, its still alive as seen in PTR.
2 different points. First “Phantasm are summoned pets, why nerf like this?” Second “This will kill the build”.
Hence why I said:
Which basically what ignorant is.
The fact that I’m not the only one who sees it like this would mean the post should’ve been typed better detailed and specifically to avoid responses like mine.
First of all, phantasm not supposed to be a pet. Spirit Barrage is not a pet, no other SB runes are pets. Similar to 1.50 base att spd was kept on The Barber when it changed from dagger to ceremonial knife(1.40 base att spd) until last patch. These are “bugs” if you like. Blizzard will balance them according to needs.
Agree its more logical to remove ALL pet mechanics from phantasm. It isnt fair to remove WD altogether from group meta after just 1 season and Necro trash killer - the strongest trash killer substitute is not as consistent in elite killings in high tiers vs WD. So from player experience enjoyment point of view and not to break too much balance from necro solo bds (over buffing), phantasm has its att spd multiplier kept. I guess they havent worked out how to keep WD strong / consistent in META yet not OP in solo. Att spd multiplier can really be maximized in group.
Overall, I am satisfied with what they have done so far regarding to META.
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Did you just selectively ignore the part of my reply that says Phantasms shouldn’t be counted as summons to begin with? lol…
SB itself is not a pet, true that, but Phantasm and Manitou runes summon pets, in fact…and they’ve always been pets, for all these years. Every summoned creature is a pet, in Witch Doctor, and those phantasms are summoned, in both cases. If they weren’t supposed to be a pet from the start, then why “fixing it” now, after 8 YEARS? lol? Does this makes any sense at all?!
The rearranged build works in solo pushing, true, got a -6 to 8 tiers, I’m not mad at that at all, but I don’t get why keeping the build for just 1 season then taking it off META with some illogical nerf, when they left Macro Wiz for 5 seasons straight before taking that s–t out. Seems legit. And I’m saying this after playing that build too, for seasons (just to clarify).
I can’t find any sense in this, honestly.
To some point, the status of pet is pretty vague in some cases, is a fetish a pet?, yes, but would you call a sentry a pet aswell?
The phantasms fall under a grey area where yes they are summoned, but they dont act as a pet would under a normal circumstance, as in move around. They put an effect on the place where you left them, with an animation of something which could be called a pet.
But I would rather think of the positive side in this, as they removed the pet status, both a gem and an item dissapeared from the obligatory setup, leaving space for other choices. Seeing as some are running aquila now to beef up the defence.
If you accept that the nerf was happening and are fine with the number, and the playstyle is more or less the same, are you really unhappy with the outcome?
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Already said.
Again, I’m not mad because they nerfed the build, I think is illogical how. If I needed to change up some pieces and still get to play it in META, I wouldn’t say anything…but I’m not the only one agreeing on this. Why the hell take it out after one season? Just because the Necromancer absolutely needed to shine again? Because you sell it? Seems legit…
Manitou is not a pet and gains no pet bonuses.
Phantasm is not a pet. It only gained pet bonuses because there was a bug.
Spectres are not pets. The fall under the same category as DH Reign of Vengeance Shadow beasts which are summoned and don’t get pet bonuses.
There’s a blue post here - PTR Starts 2/6 and additional Thoughts - #95 by Apache222-1831
"It’s more that Phantasm (specifically) is treated as a pet, which wasn’t really ever intended, "
They’re finally fixing a bug that’s been around for years.
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Shouldn’t be counted as summons when the rune specifically says exactly that (and not just Phantasm, but Manitou as well)? Why shouldn’t they? It’s what they wrote in the game, not what I’ve decided to interpret by reading, anyway.
If it wasn’t intended from the start, they should’ve wrote something different then (or idk just leave it there, after 8 years in the game)
It’s a bit of a stretch to call it out of the meta after a week of PTR testing no? The build was overkilling GR150 and I watched some youtuber still overkilling GR150 with it after the nerf (I didn’t personally do this so take it with a grain of salt). I’m not saying it is in or out of the meta but I do think it’s a bit too early to make the call right?
Yep, after the nerf you can do it, sure…if you have 10k+ paragon. I could (still) do it too if I have my paragon doubled (no joke, just saying).
I’m just giving my feedback for what PTR gave me up to now, which is (again, for now), no more WD in meta game, because compared to the current patch build, the ‘new’ one can’t compare in that field. It’s not even close.
People in communities always want the most competitive build, as you surely know, so WD for what it is now, it’s already been left out.
Now, I have 5600 paragon (1000+ hours spent playing WD and 1000+ on Necro), play mostly Non Seasonal now and can clear 150 with all classes (this patch I’m playing WD, of course). We tried multiple versions but there’s no chance WD can still clear higher than 140 if you don’t have TONS of paragons. That is what we noticed and we’re not the only ones, so, since this was the first thing I wanted to see in PTR, I’m giving my feedback on this matter.
Of course I don’t know if things will go ahead this way (hope not), but this is what I see now, and this is the feedback I wanted to give.
Ok, you probably know something I don’t then. But what are you guys comparing the new build to? As far as I know, the new build is still superior to every other build as trash killer.
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Firstly we compared the WD in current patch (aka with no nerf) to the PTR WD (with nerf). Couldn’t go higher than 140, and it felt like pushing. Normally with my WD we clear 150 in 12 minutes.
We’re trying the new LoD Necro Trash Killer now…cleared 150 yesterday with it. Didn’t enjoyed it, personally I don’t like the mechanics, not fun to play (in my opinion of course), discussed it with my clanmates and they agree.
If you look at the PTR Leaderboards now, you’ll see less and less WDs and always more Necro LoDs. Even streamers are all playing and showing that build. This is what is cooking right now…
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yeah cos gargs and zombie dogs aren’t summonings…again, the lack of consistency in the application of logic by Blizzard…
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