I have tested it now with slow time elite. In archon form it still stacking chant. stacks. I have saw in archon get from 10 stacks to 16 stacks.
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Thank you for testing!
Sad that it’s down from a (pretty much) guaranteed 20 stack carry over with missile dampening.
Dampening is kind of rare though. Illusionist still works wonders for archon stack count. These are still some of the most desirable elite affixes.
(sidetrack) I will say I’m liking the Squirt’s bug fix. Is Squirt’s fix going to make up for the nerf on high-end solo push? Not much, but it will alleviate frustration from excess fishing and help out greatly on speed runs. I think fishing for Illusionist, Missile dampening, health link on top of everything else is already quite enough. Squirt’s bug fix means we now have clear options for either build path (EW or Squirt’s+Karini) depending on what the game happens to throw our way. Pretty cool.
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you mean GR150 solo with bad gear / Diablo 3 2.6.7 | GR150 Solo Crusader - 16:12 (damn this floor 2) - YouTube / live Twitch 150 solo
So I tested with Missile dampening, and while the target was stationary, I was able to get up to 20 stacks while in archon. However, if the dampener moved after casting AT:SD and entering archon, it was a partial. At least 10 stacks still, but not as flexible as it used to be.
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I looked closer at the slow motion, and entering archon does appear to be faster by some small amount of frames.
While it does not feel as good playing Chantodo, and I’d prefer some other method perhaps for a fix, I will be okay if the change is determined to be required as part of the bazooka fix, and stays as it is.
A 3 stack carry over is still somewhat helpful in getting to max stacks on the next rotation as quick as possible, and still enough for crushing T16. I worry though that if this is reduced to 0 in a potential future change, this may not remain true.
Looking forward to what comes of any additional changes to this fix, seeing as it didn’t fully prevent Bazooka from functioning.
TLDR: Not enthused with the change, but it is acceptable. Eager to see future changes.
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On a side note I would not run T16 speeds with AT:SD.
you wasting chant stacks for killing mobs with the 1st wave and every AT:SD cast that’s in air during it will impact no mobs (=no stacks)
For that reason I would always suggest going for a beam attack, like disintegrate for rifts and very low GRs.
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In actual state with less stack is carring over (with AT:SD) I am testing ray of frost insted AT:SD in mid GR and I will test it even in max GR. In mid GR feels now better than AT:SD as ray of frost doesent have slow start time like AT:SD. Quick start feels better and I have a bit quicker next archon (on average) than with AT:SD. Only on elites with slow time is AT:SD much better, but missile dampening is not frequent affix.
Now I am testing Ray of frost cold blood with 11 AP cost. With that I can use SA Scramble which is nice bonus. Next I will test Ray of frost snow Blast if is it worth dmg bost first 4s of Archon (it has purpose only in situation where I can hit elite or RG with RoF, without pierce is not always garanted).
For T16 I have used RoF also before 2.6.7.
Disintegrate cost unnecessarily much AP.
Edit:
Mid and high GR (where always 20 stacks):
With RoF Snow blast is sometime problem with AP (with SA Power of the Storm), but it is playable. RoF cold blood with Scramble is a bit better.
Rof cold blood with Power of the Storm -> never problem with AP, but no bonus (dmg nor movement speed).
All test with 4 APOC.
Edit2: For higher GR still better AT:SD. For mid GR variation without Gogok I feel better with AT:SD. With Gogok I feel better with RoF.
It would be interesting to try out RoF: Sleet storm. The difficulty with running the other RoF runes is that the spell sometimes doesn’t connect with enemies, and therefore would proc gogok less in comparison.
Disintegrate does pierce but costs more AP/s (also has a bad proc coefficient). It does also have nice range and speed co. of 3.
Sleet storm does pierce. Trouble with this rune is the middle of the pack proc coefficient and range. The resource should be manageable, especially with density, but the range would be painful on ST RGs.
Overall, I think if resource can be managed, disintegrate is the better option for an instant cast, but this is usually the failure point at 5 APS. This is where sleet storm could potentially shine.
I have always had issues using these two spells in a speed setting though. They tend to make it harder to teleport smoothly, in my experience.
Sleet storm has problem with Conduit Pylon on low dif. You need something with greater reach than Conduit. With Gogok I have no problem to maintain stacks with RoF.
With RoF cold blood is problem waller.
Mmmm that is an excellent point. AT:SD actually isn’t ideal for this either, casting delay of AT always made this kind of annoying. My strategy was always to channel as far forward as possible while advancing to hopefully land some hits for Chantodo’s/Obsidian. And AP back from APoC.
In regards to Conduit, something that hits (near-)instantly and easily exceeds Conduit range would be ideal.
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they shortened the frames, but macro-level timing still is functional from what I’m understanding. They’ve gone from high skill, high performance people being able to do it more or less consistently, to “This still works, but you need a macro.”
The culprit is as, I think we’ve always said. reverse archon. Fix that crap to make Archon stacks affect only Archon damage, and this macro-level timing Archon crap goes away. Yes, Vyr is going to get caught in the crossfire when Archon no longer buffs Chantodo’s damage, but this is also a GOOD change, because Chantodo’s is too good and Archon damage itself is too low.
Wizards just need to keep the same level of performance overall. I bet someone good at math could probably come up with an accurate number, but I'd assume we'd lose about 300% damage roughly? Wouldn't then tripling Archon damage make sense?
high AP/sec and bad proc coeff doesnt matter in t16 rifts. I almost never wait out of Archon for more than it’s global cooldown.
AP is a non-issue in those cases and getting 4-6 stacks during that time.
I’m only talking about very low content.
there is no debate on mid to high GRs. If mobs don’t die immediately AT:SD is always better, however maybe not as noticable if they really release the failed bazooka nerf attempt which will then effect other Archon/Vyr builds slightly as well for no reason.
Exactly this.
Yes, I think chantodo’s should have buffed archon abilities. I’ve never been a fan of reverse archon at all. It is what we have though.
I’m no longer noting any issue with carry over stacks and AT:SD. Was seeing stack carry over of 7-8 stacks within an attempted GR. This is after the 2.6.7a update.
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I have not tested it yet. If you are right (and your tests are precise), that will be super. I hate it much more than dmg Chant. nerf.
Playing Chantodo felt super smoothe in speeds. Had a 2m 10s GR100 clear with speed build at ~1700p equivalent.
Here’s the clip. I’ve only tested AT:SD, but it definitely is stacking up to 7-8 now on average when rotating archon.
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I have tested it already too and definitely it stacking as it should. For my setup it gives 1GR back (for variant with AT:SD) . Now I am at 3GR nerf with fixed squirt. In 2.6.7 it was 4GR.
And especially it feel much more smoothe.
In 2.6.7. I came back to MSR variation (where nerf for carry over does not matter) and I was quicker than with Kariny/Furnace variant (with less stacks carry over). I was use MSR variation even on GR120 with Stricken (one 16s wait between archons on RG, even with it I was quicker).
Now I can go back to Kariny/Furnace variant which I prefer. Now is ± same speed as MSR variant.
Max GR I have not tested yet, but I expect +1GR too (for same rift).
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