Barbarian Players, what do you think about these changes?

The bracers still would be viable for IK HotA and LoD HotA, at least that was my line of thinking.

It in a way really seems like a balancing nightmare.

Skill specific bonuses on items should have never existed in the first place.

The only way to make this work properly would be to redesign the whole sets.

Blizzard has killed builds before, like the Etched Sigil-proc builds (which was not a good thin imo and they could have gone about it in another way), so they might do it again. I am not saying they should, btw.

What exactly is the appeal of the IK6 R4 Hybrid build? Is it that you can Charge around without interruption, aka spamming FC while dealing damage with it?

People will always complain when a build goes away, even if it is healthy for the game or 10 now build come up because of that, but in this case I might eventually abstain from making suggestions for IK and Raekor, since Reakor and the Charge build are not things I am too familiar with, though I have to say it has some appeal for me to still theory craft about it.

By removing HOTA from raekor 6p you eliminate most of the balancing nightmares.
The only things left that overlap are the IK 6p bonus which can stay as is and the 4p bonus on raekor which really only effects hybrid charge.
Take the easy route so it is easy for blizzard to see the benefits.

I was referring to the removal of bracers from your reakor/spear build.
Of course they would still be viable for IK hota and LOD hota. Now they could be used to directly buff both. No longer would raekor be involved in the discussion to buff or not.

They literally just need to change Hota damage to spear. Then buff spears supporting legendaries and be done with it. That solves everything except wall charging.

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Pretty sure this would not work as written. Currently, you Leap 3x and then Slam. So in your version, each Leap would eat one of your “Leap charges”, and then you’d have to cooldown all 3 charges. Let’s say the Socks add 50% CDR to Leap, and Leap’s new base CD is 10 seconds. If you also carried the “regular” 33.33% CDR, Leap’s cooldown would be 10 * 0.5 * 0.67 = 3.35 seconds, per charge, meaning you’d need to gain 10.05 seconds of “cooldown offset” via spending Fury. But to do that, you’d need to spend about 300 Fury, which is impossible. To make this actually work, you need to get that “offset” amount down to about 5 seconds.

If Socks gave 75% CD to Leap, it’d be 10 * 0.25 * 0.67 = 1.675 seconds, per stack, 5.025 seconds total, which would be pretty much the minimum workable amount- any less would be horrible.

But: why? Too much effort to redesign something that already works great in order to make it do more or less the same thing. No thanks. All Leapquake really needs is more damage added to the 6-piece bonus.

Better to just add more damage to MOTE 6 or Fury of the Vanished Peak. Removing the target limit is a lot more unpredictable. Besides, it adds an interesting element to the gameplay.

Nah. Just add damage to MOTE 6.

Yes, agreed.

And wall charging, I think, is pretty much un-fixable, at least in the sense of getting rid of it entirely. But, I think you could disincentivize it by changing the way Raekor stacks are acquired. Instead of one charge per use of FC, it could be one per enemy hit. This would make it more advantageous to stay in open areas where more mobs can congregate, rather than using the speed boost of banging your head on a wall (VC has this disincentive in the form of Vile Ward).

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I will simply quote the person with the #1 worldwide solo bsrb clear in era 11.

The point is some think that all charge builds (hybrid or R6) require wall-charging to be effective. This is not the case.

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It is the first iteration of a baseline approach.

I also toyed with the idea of reducing the base Recharge Time of Charge of Leap to 8 seconds and letting the 4piece bonuses of the MotE set reduce it to 4-5 seconds and then let the Lut Socks give it anywhere between 40-60% CDR to make this work.

Because it makes Leap more useful and appealing to other builds and also gives much better mobility.

If anything else than removing the limit just to keep the effect “special” (special just for the sake of being special does not by default mean that it is good imo), then I would invert this.

Seismic Slam deal xxx% increased damage and an additional xxx% increased damage to the first 10 enemies it hits.

Works both way, but this here would buff LoD builds as well.

Dude wall charging is done for the raekor hota not hybrid charge. There is two builds. One that uses charge as a support function and one that uses it for actual damage. That video was of the hybrid version not the build we are referring to. There is a reason he didn’t use wall charging you see.

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Two thumbs up for the effort! I like a lot of the changes.

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I like most of it. But only buffing one rune boulder toss is not what I wanted to see. I care more for freedom of choosing

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I can really appreciate the creativity, but MOTE doesn’t need a fix. All it needs is more damage in the set bonus and it will be on par (or very nearly) with Rend. So would Pro-Slam. We don’t need to mess with Leap’s cooldowns or anything else. We don’t need to add more complexity into what is a simple build that works.

Really, the simplest fix is often the best.

The problem with the Raekor set is more complex.

If you buff the Charge damage, you make Vile Charge stronger–that’s fine, but that would also depend on potential buffs to the IK set. The bigger problem is the global spender multiplier in the 6-piece bonus. If that gets buffed too high, Raekor becomes better at everything that spends Fury; in the past, this resulted in it becoming the better HOTA build, and in the theme- and skill-specific world of D3 builds, that’s not a good thing.

But again, the simplest fix is likely the best. If we want to get Raekor back to it’s original design of using Charge to build stacks and dropping Boulder Toss for nukes, all we need to do is buff Three Hundredth Spear and Skular’s Salvation. That’s it. Increase the multipliers on those two items–and yes, they would have to be BIG increases–and now you have a viable Charge/Toss build.

Agreed on both points. Wall-charging is likely a function of the game engine and not easily removed. Changing the mechanic to accrue stacks the way Rage described is a good idea. This is the only mechanical change I support.

So, yeah, I like the creativity, but I’m not a fan of complicated mechanical overhauls. They’re unnecessary and unlikely to happen, especially when all we need for better build parity is more damage on a few set and item bonuses. That’s it, really.

If you want to do a visual mock-up, check out the Balance post I made in GD and use the numbers we plugged into that.

Two things here. First, I want to remind everyone that ShadowDragon is another alt of MicroRNA. He’s been using his various alts to mass-flag posts.

Second, Dark couldn’t wall-charge the RG because it’s Crusader King, and unless you can spawn him in a very narrow tunnel, wall-charging isn’t a viable strategy. Vile Charge really only uses wall-charging against certain RGs. The build ideally fishes for RGs and maps where you can pin the RG against a wall and wall-charge like crazy; if Dark had gotten a better RG in a corridor, he would have gotten a faster clear.

135 wasn’t the cap for the build. It’s just where the pushing stopped.

This isn’t the first time you’ve spread misinformation about builds. In the future, refrain from doing so.

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I saw you talking about this in you thread I linked in the original post.

You made some suggestions like to increase the damage of Remorseless to 1100% or something like that, so that the IK didn’t had to buffed instead (because that would overbuff the IK6 R4 build) which I thought was a bit too much on a single legendary.

I know there is the 400%*3 damage buff on Triumvirate (Wizard item), but at least there the 1200% is shown as 400%*3, so I tried to go another way and make the IK set specific to CotA and HotA, and Raekor specifically for Charge and Boulder Toss, to create a more distinct identity for these sets.

You are right that your proposal of adding a massive, massive damage multiplier on legendaries is easier. My suggestions are just another way to go about it, based on personal preferences.

I read your post and I even put a link to it in my original post, and I also too it into consideration when I came up with the numbers I used for the visual mockups.

We don’t all have to pull on the same robe. Any changes that the devs could do would be welcome, whatever path they choose to take (assuming it is a good one).

I admit it is a more of a nice issue, since it is mostly an issue for LoD build players like myself. In a way it similar to the Teleport situation on the Wizard. Both Leap and Teleport would fee much better, more flexible and mobile to use if they had Charges instead of a CD and lower rechange times…

… though on the Wizard this issue is much more problematic, since the Wizard doesn’t has a build that is revolving around Teleport and only the Illusionist Passive.

I agree with you that this issue does not have the highest priority, but not mentioning it also would not feel right for me.

I have not done that. As you may know, Blizzard keeps track of your IP address and physical location (check your json file). This information is not available when querying someone else’s json file. I would not jeopardize my forum account by engaging in that type of CoC-violating behavior. If posts are being flagged highly, I am not the reason. Also, the forum moderators review posts before a sanction.

To view your json file, follow MissCheetah’s directions that are described here:
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/d3/t/trust-levels-how-to-check/87/2

For additional relevant information see posts from MissCheetah and myself:

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/d3/t/can-flagging-be-weaponised/17383/23
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/d3/t/can-flagging-be-weaponised/17383/39
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/d3/t/can-flagging-be-weaponised/17383/198
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/d3/t/can-flagging-be-weaponised/17383/218

You know I am not a moderator right? We have been over this a lot. I only have green text. That is it. If I was a mod a lot of people would have been smacked with a spatula long ago.

That said, yes, Blizzard does know exactly what IP address someone is using and how many accounts are linked to it. There are other ways too, but I won’t go there.

If someone has been suspended and feels it is the result of abusive reporting by one person, include that in your appeal. You do get an email when you get forum suspended telling you which post was the final straw. I think it has appeal instructions in it or at least a link to the support site.

I was actually forum banned a month or two ago from the WoW forums because someone did not like a factual post about how stuff worked, and decided to use alts to report me. The mod messed up and hammered me instead of the abuser. It got fixed pretty fast and the other person has not been back, that I have seen. :woman_shrugging:

I know. I did not say that you are a forum moderator. I used your posts to illustrate your MVP knowledge about how the forums operate.

That sounds like good advice. I have never been forum suspended or had a post stay hidden (I had one post hidden with the system e-mail, but the moderator determined it was ok and unhid it/removed the flags after a few hours.)

My point was it is not appropriate to level false accusations to name and shame. I simply am not guilty of mass-flagging of posts.

Im a fan of giving lut socks a 500% damage modifier to EQ. They generally dont mess with skills. I wouldnt mind seeing more than a flat damage boost. Maybe getting every leap rune in the set? Nothing crazy.

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That’s a bad idea. For one thing, adding another 6x multiplier would make Leapquake way overpowered. For another, getting every Leap rune would give you Toppling Impact, which is annoying as hell since it screws up your density pulls.

I’ll say it yet again: all Leapquake needs is for MOTE 6 to go to 50,000% or so. Then it’ll be competitive with Rend, and Slam builds will be improved as well-- all with just one change.

Look, Dev time is not an unlimited quantity. Any time they spend making changes to one item or build is time they spend ignoring another item or build. There are so many legit builds for so many classes that need work, and for as many of them to get attention as possible, changes need to be as streamlined and simple as possible.

That’s why Free and I cooked up this set of numbers, which with just 6 changes (actually, now it would be just 5, since Tribes has been buffed), gives us several more viable builds, without making anything super-overpowered.

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I want to emphasize Rage’s point, because it’s really important. And I want to also emphasize that all of our builds–all of them–can easily be brought into relative parity with simple, straightforward buffs to set and item multipliers.

If the devs had tons of time and energy to spend on sweeping changes, yeah, sure, I’d love to see some overhauls. But we can’t even get CMs to post more than once every few months, and we barely get them to interact with the community much less class experts. To say that D3 is on the backburner is an understatement. We’re not getting sweeping changes, but we don’t really need them, either.

All we need are bigger multipliers on sets and supporting items, and all of our builds will achieve relative parity. Not all classes are in such a good potential position.

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That would be nice where my preference is to put the modifier on the set when possible as sets often have more broad range of skills that are supported rather than the supporting legendaries for certain builds. Also, some support legendaries may need rather high buffs.

I think that you are correct in that D3’s age as well as other Diablo/Blizzard’s new projects that the changes going forward will be more modest.

When I checked Blizzard tracker, I think the CM team since early May 2020 has posted ~185 times. That works out to 1 post every 1.5 days.

I am not in the know relative to the barb class experts; however, the CM team has spotlighted experts in other classes. Also, they have sought community input on the key content creators where many are class experts.
The CM is looking for some Diablo content creators - General Discussion - Diablo 3 Forums (blizzard.com)

You can tinker with Mote, IK and Raekors all you want and folks still wont play em.

The game has gone into speed builds and speed farming and speed GRs and speed…

My point is you can tweak numbers all you want but the only time folks might play em is if they knock off WW/Rend.

WW/Rend has power, punch and… speed.

You make Mote, IK and Raekors equal on damage and no one will play em. WW/Rend has speed on it’s side.

Barbs needs speed on these unloved sets as well as power boosts.

Make Lut Socks remove the cooldown on leap. Perma leap yes but at least hey, it’ll keep up with GoD DH, chicken doc or WW.

Make IK get a 100% MS bonus with WotB is up.

Raekors can have a speed increase atack from charges.

These could need tweaking, changing or totally redesigned but the key point is to add speed to the sets.

I think players who enjoy those builds, and players who prefer solo over group play, will play the heck out of them. Sure, Rend does everything really well, but Rend–especially for pushing–has a distinct and unique play style, just like EQ, and just like Frenzy, and with a little more juice, there can be more options for more players.

I’ve noted this in the GD thread, but the devs don’t normally balance around group play. If we’re getting buffs, it’s more likely that they’ll shoot for better solo parity.

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Yeah some solo players might play em but just watch… folks will always want that speed build.

Speed variants is what we need with buffs too.