If people aren’t doing this for other classes they should get their act together. Without some kind of organized proposal Blizzard is just going to randomly make changes and we can all see where that’s gotten us. The buff to the sky / nerf to uselessness cycle needs to end. If even a tenth of this gets done the game will be better for it. Be constructive. I know it’s hard but you can do it.
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Yes. solo is broken as hell.
i hardly play solo anymore. because:
- it’s way too slow. Para-leveling is therefore pointless.
- too hard
- two supports can give 17% + 12% more exp and there is also a group bonus. LOL? it becomes even more ridiculous when something like zdh is there and gives very good dmg bonuses. ocu ring does the rest.
- I am social and like to play together. I can no longer see solo.
…
there is also this ridiculous and bugged theme. Stacks often don’t go away even without the official tactic. therefore everything falls over by itself.
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Yeah, I know. Right now I only play solo and clear 112-119 GRs like a madman to hopefully hit 2000 paragon, level more gems to 120, and it’s slow and hard as hell… -.-
The difference between solo and group is just ridiculous…
I wished that in next season(s) they made a season theme that benefits only solo players for once, cause I’m tired of seeing the huge gap between group and solo players all the time…
They could also set a max of 3000 paragon for season and maybe even double the Exp from 100-150 GRs (both from monsters and Exp reward for finishing GR).
This way once you hit 3000 paragon in season if you’re lucky enough (bots probably would make it in less than a week of season start), you could fully focus on leveling your gems for use or caldesans and maybe even make a 2nd and 3rd char in season too or just push for highiest GR clear…
Even with these changes I bet there would still be players in public games below 2000 paragon, cause not everyone can play the game more than 10h a day whether you push solo or play in META groups only…
As for the Barb proposal from Free I still think lamentation should have the REND damage BUFFED up to 200-250%, just to see a WWRend barb do a 150 GR solo even if in less than 10 minutes.
Although I don’t play with barbs I would like to see more than just ONE build capable of soloing 145-150 GR with as little fishing as possible, same with other classes.
Every class should have at least 2 or 3 builds capable of clearing 145-150 GRs with 2500-3000 paragon.
The current 5000 or 7500 paragon requirement is just nuts and only benefits people with no lives, botters or those who only play in META groups…
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It is relevant because they are trying to estimate current potential of each build, including IK-HOTA based on a PTR clear.
My posts were more random thoughts/reality checks. I am doing my homework and will make a more extensive post later with constructive feedback.
To this end, how many GRs does wall charging increase vile charge GR clears for top notch players? Since you mention it frequently, you must think it is substantial. Is it 3-4 GRs or 5-6 GRs or even more?
Exactly, it’s a proposal, thus it’s up for criticism as any other proposal out there. Even free activly criticize other proposals for barbarian, so his own suggestion shouldn’t be any different right? You’re not automatically immune just because you’ve gotten a thumbs up from some like-minded people.
And it’s not even to put a pin in the wheel for the suggestions, it’s just people questioning the methods and the views on how this proposal was put together. I think most of us, even the ones criticizing agree that these builds need buffs, but thinking that we have nothing better to do than to argue this is absurd.
And what says we dont?, I chuck out some suggestions here and there, mostly in the crusader forum but still. I even commented on xelnagalvan’s post in the crus forum, having my own opinion on how to buff crus, I wasn’t mad at him for posting, nor was he mad at me for giving my own views.
Currently I chuck out my own view on the method of buffing the builds to different levels depending on difficulty, I think they should aim at the same target rather than having different end goals, be it that they all wont hit the target perfectly, fine. But atleast that they didn’t treat them different.
I’m also a little bit suprised that other barb players aren’t contributing to this thread, I cant imagine that all barb players are in unizon to this buff (rather on how to buff all items and such), and also I’m sure there has to be someone who wants more than whats offered in this thread.
Vile Charge only gets about 0.5 GRs of benefit from wall charging. Literally the only thing you use it for is stacking Stricken on RGs a little faster. This is because most of your clear potential comes from clearing tons of trash, and to do this you need to run through big piles of mobs in open areas, in order to maximize the bonus from Vile Ward. You can’t do that while wall-banging.
That, of course, is in contrast to R6 HOTA, which not only needs wall charging to build up stacks, it also relies on it to keep the endless walk damage bonus at 100%.
So: R6 HOTA gets maybe 7-8 GRs of benefit, but VC gets very little.
I just find it mind numbing how it’s always the 1% people want to compare numbers to…again, 8-10k paragon doesn’t reflect 99% of players, seasonal themes does not reflect how a core build will perform.
People like to Use the non seasonal 8k-10k and botters as a benchmark for how far a build will Push and are always Calling fishing for 3000 keys to push one more level is easy so the 99% of players can easily do it…with their spare 12 hours a day to farm them.
Somehow in this thread, instigators decided to bring up nerfing…something too OP…it’s not OP for The 99% And the 1% also cleared 145+ with Other classes…you nerf a build and another build will rise the next patch to complete the same GR level as the ones nerfed did by the same 1%. It’s asinine just like the derailment of this well organized original post.
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Shouldn’t you be doing homework to benefit your main class communities balancing in the upcoming patch? If I didn’t know any better, I’d say that your barking up the the wrong tree and that your efforts will be wasted. I already stated earlier that the Devs said they are good with where WW/Rend is, but if you insist on being counterproductive, then by all means, have at it. 
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I am. My main classes are DH and barbarians. I have not said that rend should be changed in this thread.
I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say it’s the lack of one. Throwing out suggestions in various threads is not putting together a well thought out proposal similar to this.
I have no issues with debating or criticizing over the numbers. My point is instead of getting into pointless arguments for the sake of arguing maybe put something constructive together that clearly states what you want and how you would like to get there. And that’s not just aimed at you but multiple others that spend their time trying to tear down instead of build up.
I have no issue with you or anyone else on these forums save one and I have him muted. All I am saying is if all the mud slinging and drama were put into doing something constructive instead of destructive just maybe things could get better in game and on the forums.
4 Likes
The core features of a buff proposal is what is the current power of the build X, what is the target power of the build to become Y, and adding buffs mathematically on the right items to move from X to Y.
The items/set bonuses selected to have buffs added are sound, even though I prefer buffs to sets versus supporting items where possible.
This proposal has specific builds with different new target solo GR values. This is opinion-based.
Rage’s barbarian thread posts estimated the current power of builds. Rage’s estimates were not put into the first post. This would improve the first post. Some of these estimates seem off to me.
I have thrown out my full on threads aswell, covering most about crusaders, maybe a year ago I had one going into the crus forum and one into the general forums. I will admit it’s not every single patch I post, and it’s not always my own threads that I post in. But saying that doesn’t hinders us from chucking a suggestion here and there, it doesn’t always have to be the suggestions of the op that are good, sometimes you can find golden ones further down the thread.
Well, then why does it seem like you’re not allowed to debate numbers? A lot of the discussions here are exactly about that, either the number which is needed for each build, and also the target the builds are set to have.
I believe you missed the part where I said I have no issue. I can’t speak for others.
I didn’t, but you sort of answered that. You cant speak for others, and the general feeling I get is that you cant question this thread.
Whether or not it’s for a positive thing, any change to the thread seems to be frowned upon.
I think that comes from people getting really defensive after fighting trolls for so long it sort of becomes natural to treat all opposition the same way. And that’s kind of sad if you think about it. And I see your point you feel like you are trying to flesh out the issues you see but your getting tossed into the same pile as the trolls.
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From my point of view, the forum members who have raised concerns about this buff proposal or asked questions have done so respectfully.
Thank you, actually thats nice to hear some change in the perception of different opinions.
Not expecting you to follow my views, but it’s nice to hear that it’s not dismissed directly.
I don’t understand why you keep asking for buffs. It’s never enough for Barb players. They cried for a month and got the most powerful build in the game. And now, they want every other build to be the same? So five strongest builds in the game? WTF?
If anything, Rend needs a huge nerf. It’s been over performing for too many seasons.
Text can be interpreted thirty seven different ways by three different people. It just so impersonal. But for the most part I would agree that several have been.
Perfect example here of why people get defensive.
Now it’s way past bed time for me. Gotta work graveyard so goodnight.
3 Likes
If you have nothing better to say than better say nothing at all…
Another one who can’t come up with any suggestions or balance for his own class, so he cries for nerfs to a class that has been left behind others for years before the WWRend build appeared.
Three or 4 seasons is too many?! I wouldn’t mind if it was “over performing” FOR YEARS.
How many seasons have Wizards and Necros been “over performing”? 
Why don’t you do something constructive for a change and try to find some balance suggestions to your own class instead of asking for nerfs to the ones you don’t like or are jealous about…
6 Likes