[Barb] H90 Focused Feedback

PTR Feedback
692

It does indeed. Just riffing, but is it possible that the strange spread has to do with Bastion’s rate of hits failing to sync with Stricken’s application and ICD? Not sure if I’m phrasing that correctly. What I mean is, let’s say you have two, oh, I don’t know, SKELETONS within range. You hit the first, apply Stricken to that one, and the Bastion’s chain then links to the second. As you wail on the first, there are moments when Stricken’s ICD is active, and when it’s off cooldown, the hit that is proccing is a chain hit, and not Frenzy, because both Frenzy and the Bastion’s chains may be counting as “hits.”

Does that make sense? Your discussion of the irregular animation of the Bastion’s chains, something I’ve also noticed, made me think of that.

Sorry if I’m not being clear.

You’re sick and you need a doctor.

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693

I don’t think so. If that were the case, my first video would have shown all the stacks on the guy hit directly by Frenzy, not the guy hit by the chain. And the ICD in that test would be very low: not more than about 6 frames long (about 1/10th of a second). So there should be no ICD running when I executed each hit with Frenzy.

I’m like 99+% sure the chain hits first.

Let me guess… an orthopedist?

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694

lol, …, based on my fishing experience: although I didn’t hit some blues or yellows, there maybe still decent amount of stacks on them. In other words, when I target those mobs, they die pretty fast.

I am about >70% sure, the Frenzy stricken stacking theory is correct. But it is really hard to test. T**D may help, but I avoid touching those 3rd party hackerware.

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695

Can you clarify what you mean? Are you saying that chain hits take precedent over Frenzy hits in distributing/stacking Stricken?

You know what? Let’s work on something new:

Skeleton Buff Proposal

696

That makes sense. I don’t have the planner downloaded, will have to wait till I get home to register; been using old references which leads me to want to confirm with you all.

So theoretically, if you could get the ICD under 4F, and the icd to expire before the duration of the 10 bastion hits (before the next frenzy swing), could you stack stricken on multiple targets at the same time?

Where my mind is I ditched EQ to try WotB and found something interesting. With 21 ias from gear and 7% ias on oath keeper and Azure, with wotb (or speed pylon without wotb), Gogok (instead of trapped) and cubing EF instead of CoE, you can have a 4F frenzy with the 5 EF stacks; 6F with 1.”, 7F with 0.

With that in mind and the bonus move speed from vanguard, EF, Wotb and paragon (+145) that has left me curious.

Giving up trapped & CoE are huge, but I wonder if there is a terminal point where the stricken stacks plus aps will outpace a slower swing setup with CoE and trapped.

Edit: and you would need a chiropractor. Orthos work on joints and tissue. I do medrecs, I know this!!

697

Yes. And I can think of two ways that can happen.

First, assume that you’ve got stacks of Frenzy, so the chain will fire.

1: When you push the button to hit a guy with Frenzy, there’s an animation. It’s not like you push the button and the enemy is instantly hit. It’s easier to imagine with a slower attack, like if you’re playing Leapquake and swinging a big 2H weapon. When you press the SS:Rumble button, your Barb takes a big swing, and hits some enemies. There’s a delay in-between when you push the button, and when the attack actually deals damage. This delay is present for Frenzy, too, even though it’s shorter.

So, it’s possible the chain shoots out before you actually hit with Frenzy, like maybe one frame earlier or something. So in this case, you’re basically hitting Mob 1 with Frenzy on frame 0, but Mob 2 is getting hit by the chain on frame -1.

OR

2: The game has a system for determining “priority” between different things that happen on the same frame. I think this is the more likely scenario.

Again, imagine a Leapquake Barb. There are 8 or 9 EQ’s on the ground, ticking away. There are Avalanches raining down. You’re hitting things with Leap, with SS. A lot is happening, and some of it will be happening on the same frames. So there’s got to be a system for determining what happens if, say, both EQ and Avalanche hit the same guy, or different guys, on the same frame. Who gets the Stricken stack? And how long is the ICD? Each of those skills will set a different ICD, so which one of them sets that ICD makes a significant difference.

It’s the same here. I’m guessing the game just gives priority/preference to the chain in this case.

How “chain shoots first” happens is a bit up in the air. That it happens is pretty certain, I think.

BUT: I think the chain also has its own ICD, which is why you don’t end up with ALL the stacks on guys hit by the chain and NONE of the stacks on the guy you hit directly with Frenzy. I went over this in points #3 + #4 of my post this morning.

Nope, you can’t stack Stricken on multiple targets at the same time, that’s the whole purpose of the ICD. In the example I gave before, if you hit with a 9F Frenzy, you get a 4F ICD. If you had a 5F Frenzy, then you’d have a 2F ICD. However long it is, anything that happens before that ICD expires won’t proc Stricken.

D3 planner is a website, here: https://www.d3planner.com/

Haha, thanks for the clarification!

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698

And this does happen and should be changed because Frenzy is our only means of attack.

But Smite interfering with Freeze/Fear is only a problem because of the design of the 2-set piece.

Being hit with Frenzy grants a 10% bonus to damage and attack speed against Barbarians. This effect can stack.

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699

No I get 1 hit cannot create 2 stacks, absolutely accurate, but I was under the impression bastion is 10 hits each with the ability to crit, proc AD and bloodshed.

What I’m wondering is if you are right and bastion is stacking first at -1F, then frenzy stacks at 0F, and you are able to get the icd to one frame for a 4F frenzy, would one of the other ten hits of bastion between frames 1-2 (3 being the next bastion after the 4th frame frenzy hit) have the ability to stack it as well? Or would fall in line with other attacks over time, like rend, where only the first tick applies stricken?

Edit: or possibly all ten hits are calculated at -1F?

700

Well, there aren’t really 10 hits: it’s just that the chain does as much damage as 10 hits of Frenzy, and this then gets divided up between however many enemies are within range. And each hit by the chain can independently crit, or proc AD, and, if a crit, is factored into Bloodshed.

So: if base frenzy does 100 damage, and you hit one guy standing next to another guy:

Mob 1 takes 100 from “base” Frenzy… or this could crit, do extra damage, get factored into Bloodshed, proc AD, etc.

Mob 1 also takes 500 damage from the chain, all as one hit, and this hit could crit, do extra damage, get factored into Bloodshed, proc AD, etc.

Mob 2 also takes 500 damage from the chain, all as one hit, and this hit could crit, do extra damage, get factored into Bloodshed, proc AD, etc.

As for Stricken, the ICD isn’t just for “this skill” or “that proc”… it includes everything.

A simpler, slower example might make things simpler.

Let’s say you hit Mob 1 with “skill A”, and with this skill you have really low attack speed, so that attack actually takes 60 frames (1 second) to execute. And let’s also say you’ve got no bonus to move speed. So in this case, the ICD on stricken is going to be 60F * 0.9 = 54 Frames.

Then, let’s say that right after you stack Stricken with that slow attack and trigger that ICD, you start hitting a guy really fast with Frenzy, like every 5 Frames.

So, if that ICD was triggered at “frame 0”…

Frame 5: Frenzy hit, no Stricken stack.
Frame 15: Frenzy hit, no Stricken stack.
Frame 20: Frenzy hit, no Stricken stack.
Frame 25: Frenzy hit, no Stricken stack.
Frame 30: Frenzy hit, no Stricken stack.
Frame 35: Frenzy hit, no Stricken stack.
Frame 40: Frenzy hit, no Stricken stack.
Frame 45: Frenzy hit, no Stricken stack.
Frame 50: Frenzy hit, no Stricken stack.
Frame 54: Stricken ICD expires.
Frame 55: Frenzy hit, 1 Stricken stack applied, ICD reset (in this case, with no move speed, it would be reset to 4 Frames).

So: the ICD prevents Stricken from stacking anywhere, on any mob, using any skill, until it’s elapsed.

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701

Gotcha. Thank you for taking the time to explain that.

I was reading the the description as “hits an additional time per stack” with each hit chaining to enemies in 15 yards. Makes sense it would be just a x10 Hit that is divided & each enemy hit has a chance for crit/ad etc on their portion of the chain; much less calculations.

Even though there is not any benefit from it: So based on the formula provided, with wrath running and 5 stacks 4f*(.9/2.2) = 1.63, or two frames icd I take it if it rounded up, which I assume that’s the case. However with a speed pylon that would be 1.28, with both pylon and wotb 1.2. Throw in ferocity and it goes down to 1.09…all I take it still makes it 2 frame ICD. Still, good to know the mechanics.

Thank you rage!! Not gonna lie, I was at a loss for names when I first came back to the forums, only remembering free and nubtros at first; but if I’m not mistaken, wasn’t frenzy thorns your baby? (With community assistance of course)

Edit: but wait, given your example above, frenzy was hitting every 5 frames at the end, making it a 5F frenzy, with no move speed 5*.9 would come out to 4.5. Does it round down??!?

702

Yep, rounds down.

Nope, wasn’t me… think that was Conan, maybe…

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703

Sweet! So 1 frame icd for a 4F frenzy with 120 movespeed; yea…if only something could be fit in frame2 that stacks it. Edit; I sincerely doubt sidearm, slaughter or bloodshed have any effect.

PTR servers went down. I take it we are at the end? I just hope we don’t have to wait till S19 ends to find out any more tweaks and peaks from week 2.

704

Bliz will make some minor changes between season 19 end and season 20. They will be untested as usual, will still go live.
They just don’t seem to get it when it comes to making untested changes live, then have unintended issues.
The new set is solid for a different gameplay, it’s versatile with many different weapon combos usable until the preferred weapons are obtained.
Speed variations are very possible using + movespeed and in-geom, Reckels ring for mobility.
It certainly needs some adjustments to DR and damage.
Have to wait and see now how it changes, if at all…

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