Barb Ethereal Feedbacks

Dear Devs, I did some pushes and comparison between the barb Ethereals.

Grand Farther:
WW-Rend build, as you already noticed that, this build has serious toughness issue.
**H90, still more serious toughness issue. **
affix like Crit Hit gain 1% life will be really helpful.

Doom:
H90, it fits good for H90, but consider H90 is not a strong build, Doom need extra dmg buff. You can check the leaderboard, H90 is really weak compare to other classes.
EQ-SS. Haven’t tried it, but I think the issue is same.

Doom is more defensive. I would like to see some offensive affix. e.g primary skill buffs. or every 5 hit reduce WotB by 1s…

GimmerShred:
This Ethereal is one of the weakest among all ethereals. I just didn’t find any place to put it.
The main issue is, the dmg buff is so small and the purpose of this ethereal is not clear.
I would suggest buff the dmg:

  • For example attack speed,
  • or Frozen and guaranteed critical hits, which fits well with H90.

Based on the discussion below, personally I may suggest:

Grand Farther: 1% life per crit hit.
Doom: 1s WotB cool down per 10 fury spent. Works for non-perm WotB build.
GimmerShred: 35% frozen + guaranteed crit. As DH

9 Likes

Yes 100% agreed on the grandfather needing some sort of damage mitigation or healing added to it , rather then the ignores durability loss , the weapon itself feels as it should a powerful 2 hander , but wearing it you give up alot of damage mitigation and healing

5 Likes

i would be happy if it had something like obsidian ring of zodiac on it, savages set and wrath of the wastes could use it gladly…

but one thing i would love to see is barb holding 2 x 2hand swords at same time as in diablo 2

2 Likes

Yes. I like this. Keep perm wotb. make it unique to season play.

1 Like

Grimmershred should really get the affix hitting increases your attack speed by 3 % up to 30 %.

1 Like

I do agree with you points here. And the Barb etherals do need something more.
But I am afraid that it is too late. Consider that there were no changes in the recent PTR update to the Barb etherals, it seems the Devs are fine with how they are currently.

But I hope I am wrong and we do get some changes to the Barb Etherals, like the ones you are suggesting here.

2 Likes

Yes. We still have 1 week. It is not hard to set weapon affix. Balance won’t take much time I think.

2 Likes

It is never too late for changes, if they are reazonable, i’m 100% sure devs will listen and implement, they made it on firebirds last season, and barbaraian top rank numbers shows the necessity of a buff.

1 Like

This definitely feels true. You could wear Crimson’s to try and counter balance this, but it comes at the cost of CoE.

A cooldown mechanic for WoTB would be very welcome addition to the weapon, for most barb builds that don’t incorporate IK. Even default Motequake would benefit greatly from more uptime on WoTB. Might skew more in the favor of Grandfather being THE ethereal, but it already kinda is.

2 Likes

Grimmershred is not comparable to the BK swords for speeds and quality of life standards. It might do some more damage but its slower and you dont have the perma fury. Assuming thats the role its supposed to be for?

To me, the biggest two points on Ethereal Barb items are:

  1. Gimmershreds are useless
  2. Grandfather will ultimately be BIS for basically every build we have

So, #1: As other folks have pointed out, 30% extra move speed for 7 seconds just isn’t that good. There is almost no situation where you will not instead decide to carry a different item: either Grandfather, which will significantly increase your damage and allow you to do higher content at speed (i.e. speed GRs), or a set option like the BK blades, simply because doing enough damage is not really a concern, and QOL is more important (Bounties, T16s).

And, #2: Grandfather just does a ton of damage, much more than the other Ethereal options. Despite the issues that others have pointed out with it not providing much toughness or sustain, I actually see that as being kind of a positive. Correct those “deficiencies”, without taking anything away, and GF just becomes hands-down best, in every way, all the time.

Already, most people who reach, say, 2k paragon will end up playing basically every one of our builds- Rend, Leapquake, Frenzy, Slam, HOTA - while carrying GF.

Over on the Barb forum, I suggested that a better balance between the 3 items might come from giving Gimmershreds the “30% extra cumulative attack speed” affix, shifting Grandfather’s “+damage from paragon” to Doombringer, and moving the “25% damage reduction” to Grandfather. That would alleviate some of these issues- the uselessness of Gimmershreds, the fragility of Grandfather, and the not-quite-sure-what-to-do-with-it of Doombringer.

Maybe that’s not the best solution… but something that gives all 3 of these items actual usefulness is definitely in order.

4 Likes

But I think this swap is not enough.
For WWs, As GF is much slower than Istvan’s, and it is NOT a mighty weapon, so The number of nados is much less than Istvan’s, and nado ticks are much slower.
It is around 1/2 recovery compare to Istvan’s. Besides this, Istvan’s has some additional armor buff.
For H90, it has no Life Per hit, compare to 5F frenzy, it is only 1/4 recovery.
This is why I suggest crit hit heal 1% life. Other wise, GF will be a speed-run-only weapon.

This is also not enough. This 30% aps make a 7F Frenzy to 6F.
If you check Sheet dmg, you can see Gimmer is “18%” behind Doom. This suggestion won’t change the story much.

I think you already noticed that what other classes got from last patches. 35% frozen + guranteed crits?
Well, I think this should belong to H90.

So My personal opanion now:
GF: 1% life per crit hit.
Doom: 1s WotB cool down per 5 hits / 10 fury spent.
Gimmer: 35% frozen + guranteed crit.

4 Likes

Well, I mean, MM already did 138 with just 20 keys. From there to 150 it’s only 1.023^12 = 1.31, i.e. 31% more incoming damage. People reach 8k+ paragon in a season, that’s far more than 31% extra mitigation, so I really don’t see WW having a problem.

For H90, “GF for speed runs only” is actually an ok outcome, since it diminishes the dominance of that weapon.

For Gimmershreds, do you want to do some more testing on that weapon? I feel like there is something bugged about it. Are the extra elemental damage ranges not showing up in your actual damage or something?

1 Like

I tried to use savages set using granfather and it is surprisingly fun, but still i miss a way to reset berseker… in the past i sugested savages set make the berseker become a passive skill, once you hit 10 charges of frenzy you trigger berseker, it would make so much sense to merge berseker and frenzy…

Granfather- miss an cooldown effect to keep the berseker up
Gimmershred- so far it is useless, an atack speed effect or a movespeed effect at least to give it a reason to exist
Doom- damage reduction like oculus

I really like the idea of making a 2hander build for barb and GF skin looks sick, but in general all 3 weapons NEED something more to be competitive.

1 Like

Sorry I am not OK with that. Ethereal swap may solve in-class balance, but it won’t fix the poor balance across the all classes.

Ethereals at least provide a +5 GR across all classes. So we should expect ppl did 150 the coming season (follower buff is not neglectable). WWs-Rend as the most powerful barb build won’t benefit much. I remembered previous ptrs, ppl did 133 without ethereals/followers. Hence, 138 is not a surprise result, as ppl now use squirt for fishing.

However, other barb build is not as strong as WWs. H90 the second strongest barb build is now 6-7 GR behind WWs. In this season, Doom provide a +6~7 GR (by my estimation). Compare to other classes, that is weak, really weak. There is no hope to see H90 get buffed.

For the same one-hand weapon,
Crus get: +800% max dmg, +10 chd, +100 chc,+10cd, + 15%APS. (+Valor is much stronger than H90)
Barb get: 10 chd, 25 DR, 22000LPH.
Monk Get: consecutive hits increase dmg 100%
WD: +200% decay, 10 chd, 100 chc, 15% aps, 800 max dmg.
Wiz: consecutive hits increase dmg 100% , 10cd, 15 aps,…

Do you still think swapping those affix got fix this balance issue? Do you think this is fair to barb?

Whoops, Just checked. Barb is behind necros…

Yes, that’s very true.

If that’s what we’re looking for, though, then there’s no sense quibbling over whether or not Grandfather gets some Life per Hit- what we really need is bigger multipliers on the weapons.

Like maybe Doom has +200 or +300% to primary skills (instead of 100 to all skills) and becomes the H90 weapon, Gimmershred gets +200 or +300% to secondary skills, and becomes the Rend/Slam/HOTA weapon, and Grandfather gets +300 to all skills, and becomes a sort of general fill-in whenever people want it, as well as being the Leapquake weapon.

3 Likes

Yes. This make more senses and also a good choice.

25% DR is a perfect number for H90. The toughness is just OK. +200%-300% is reasonable. It is a +3-+5 compare to this version. Overall that is a +9-11 GR for H90.

+300% to gimmer is also good. Since rend lose a 1.3 multiplier and some armor+AD. It is a
+6-7 GR for Rend, 10-11 GR for Slam.

GF is really good for LP. +300 means +10 GR for EQ.

2 Likes

Allow Doombringer to pair with any weapon set and get the set buff. And boost Grimshredder for the frenzy builds. GrandFather is by far more powerful and only lacks cooldown. If it had 10 to 15% full time Berzerkers Wrath would be possible. Without a rework on Doom and Grim the choises will be Grandfather, Istvan’s Paired Blades, Bul Kathos’s or mixed Legendarys, with Doom and Grim adding to the pool and reducing the drop on the items needed to advance past GR110 and climb on the National leader boards . The hunt will be for the Ethreal with the best Legendary and passive combo, and then for another of the same type with higher stats. 2 of them should not be automatic throw away weapons. We have enough of those in the mix already. Raekor’s needs some love. I got on Americas with a GR 65.

One thing that should be changed on Grimshredd is that is has a lower damage roll, than even non ethereal ancient weapons. Either increase the +100% damage to a maximum of 125 % or increase the 3 weapon damage roll min/max by 50.

You guys do realize Grandfather has enough damage to carry you to high paragon 120 ish with an Amethyst??? no more life per hit issues.t And when you have the paragon you can swap out the gem and put some points in vitality. I can go back in and climb higher on the leader board to prove that point but it still leaves Doom and Grim without a home. If doom matched set swords it would rock. Giving grandfather a run for it’s money . And Grim would come into play with frenzy based stats like already listed.