So go ahead and post a thread “Nerf Wiz Bazooka”, and go fight with wiz. We don’t want fight here. We just want a viable barb.
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What grift level do you consider a “viable barb”?
Folks, don’t derail and don’t engage with trolls.
Keep the discussion focused around Barbs and why we should not be nerfed. If you don’t have anything useful to contribute, adios.
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Both of these will vary according to paragons. If you set a baseline maximum of 4,000 paragons, I would say both will have their #1 around 135.
Which by extension makes current WW fine. I just took it for a spin on the ptr (yep that just happened) and it’s really fun. For the first time in a long long time.
Leave WW as is I say, for several reasons. It doesn’t have the toughness of other builds, resource management can be tricky, it’s still map/density dependent and probably pylon dependent on high clears.
Meaning it’s not overshadowing any other build in terms of basic success metrics for pushing by subverting any of the above conditions.
This is perhaps one of the most balanced builds I’ve ever played in terms of Single Target vs AOE damage effectiveness. Well done to the devs on that.
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The most useful feedback currently needed is about Fjord and Remorseless. I’ve updated the numbers in the OP, but these items are under-performing–especially Remorseless.
I tried Fjord with a Cold Earth build. It has potential but needs some ‘oompf’. Cannot warrant replacing blade of the tribes for it even with increased AS the way it is.
It’s meant to fit into Pro-Slam and other Slam-centric builds. Would completely remove the IB set.
I tried it with FoVP slam, same thing. I was hoping a noticeable difference. I got more DMG with the 1-handed earthquake with BoT. Might be the player not the tools (as in me).
I went back to the 2x two-handeds.
I obviously have no idea where the devs want any build. They seem erratic and inconsistent with their choices.
But, let’s just be realistic - there will be a lot of 145+ clears from multiple classes in seasons if the current PTR seasonal buff goes live as is.
Not just Barbarians, but I’d anticipate Wizards and Necros as well.
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If you took my post as fighting words – i’m sorry that’s not what I intended. My question and stance relates to this thread as WW Rend and its power level is being scrutinized. It’s also very important for the other 2 newly released sets – when they get revised (we hope).
Don’t you think it’s unclear what is acceptably balanced means? How does anyone even know what is fair power right after Vyrtodo and Bone Ringer got nerfed?
The OP goes as far to discuss ‘compromise’ and even goes so far to describe what to forfeit – so he must have something in mind right?
Same as wiz level. …
This guy is hijacking every single barb feedback thread. He does this so no proper discussion can start, but only back and forth arguments between him and others. In the end no proper thread will stand, because every single one will be abandoned because there is too much arguing with this troll.
IGNORE HIM
DONT READ HIS POSTS
DONT RESPOND TO HIM
ACT LIKE HE ISNT THERE
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Yeah, he’s been posting tables non-stop and arguing that all classes should be balanced, which is simply not realistic when only some classes receive buffs and updates in a given patch.
Much like the last go-round, he isn’t contributing to the larger community discussion, and is only working to derail threads. I’m sure he’ll post something in response to this–him or his alts–but I encourage everyone to ignore, ignore, ignore.
Instead, focus on directing Barb feedback to this thread, and keeping the discussion civil.
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I for one think that the adjustment to rend makes a lot of sense for Barbarians, and what I always imagined a good whirlwind build would look like (even though the damage is coming from rend and not WW).
I think the updated OP and some of the other posts in this thread do a good job of outlining potential tweaks but I am honestly surprised by the number of disingenuous posts here. Blizzard would be making a grave mistake to ‘nerf’ anything here considering their history with the Barbarian, both in relative (to other classes) terms as well as absolute terms (just the Barbarian).
Precisely, and I’d bet a dime that most of the nerf posts come from the vyr’s chantodo cult that are feeling threatened by a barb build that could be in same ballpark for speeds / pushing (most true to barb class are proposing tweaks or discuss the mechanics of the new build).
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There really are only two realities relative to the barb buff for the current WW/rend build:
-
There are buffed about right.
-
They are overbuffed.
(The “third possibility” that I think we can safely exclude is that barbs were underbuffed for this build. If WW/Rend was underbuffed, there would be a multitude of posters asking to buff this build).
Scenario 1: Keep the buff as is.
Scenario 2: A less strong buff is in order, especially in light of nerfs to other classes.
I do not know about scenario 1 versus 2 with confidence, because it relates to the ultimate potential of this build and to the severity of the nerfs to necromancers and wizards. This is the information that I find relevant to thinking about this. A top barb has cleared 140 on the PTR with rather good gear with a good map (but not perfect). On the current live era solo leaderboards (assuming the data from diablo3ladder is accurate), there are 12 players who have cleared 141 or higher in solo. These 12 players set their record playing wizards or necromancers. They are 15 players who soloed a 140. They played wizard, necromancers, or witchdoctors. Wizards and necromancer are both being nerfed this patch.
For anyone who is a bit older, I can not help but think about the old Live song The Beauty of Gray in the context of this thread.
Hey free, when it goes live and barbs are good again, do you start playing the other up class (monk) and being advocate for us? ^^ I mean you do not really want to play a class that can compete with others, right? 
Blessed Shield Sader/Rolands/Hammerdin could go 140+ with those seasonal buffs fairly easy, BS sader being the highest clear potential because that build destroys trash faster than ptr WW. If what people say about the Angels buff is true it ‘fixes’ the single target RG issue which would inflate the gr clear potential for that build by 4-5 gr levels.
Ha! Good one!
Kidding aside, I’ve always been an advocate for Monks (and other classes) to receive buffs, but the only classes I have significant experience with are DH and Barb. I would not be a good spokesperson for Monks because I don’t understand the class and its items at a deep level. Sorry.
But, for what it’s worth, my feelings about the new Monk set, and Monk in particular, is this:
- The new set needs buffs in both DPS and DR
- Monks in general need more DPS and DR
- Monks need their supporting legendaries buffed