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LOL I’m still confused by this whole thread… Based on the Leaderboards rend is the 3rd most powerful build and TR is the 4th most powerful build. How can builds in the middle of the pack be OP? Why call for nerfs on the 3rd and 4th most powerful and not the most powerful and 2nd most powerful? Aren’t Rend and TR exactly where they should be? Nerf Crusader and WD, boost wizard, DH and necro and everything is good.

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that’s easy the op probably plays the strongest build and doesn’t want to see it nerfed but wants nerfs to all the people playing other good builds that he doesn’t care for. :joy:

According to blizzard, after every class get their new sets; all existing sets will be looked at. Of course, that would include vyr/chantodo. Despite that, I’m hoping vyr will be directly buffed instead of just chantodo; but we shall see.

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I don’t think Blizzard should balance the game around the top clears on the leaderboards, that is not where most of the playerbase is.

If you do that you’d be balancing the game around a guy getting lucky with a good GR. That and the FotM builds are played far more.

Yes the current vrys is weaker. Im talking about prenerf vrys. The top clear was 148 and two full lvls ahead of the era 11 rend at the time. Not to mention the speed farming capabilities of vrys was 10 lvls ahead of rend in mid tier rifts. That is why it got nerfed. And I stand by everything I said. If prenerf vrys didnt get nerfed it would already have multiple 150 solos. It already did 148 and go ahead and add 1000s of paragon to there totals. I want prenerf vrys to come back too but don’t tell me i’m wrong.

Era 11 was before the introduction of the new ww/rend build. You need to look at the graphs that I made that look at GR efficiency that takes into account paragon level.

The first post in the linked thread below has graphs for all era 11 data and a separate graph for era 12 for perspective of this combined graph.

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Thanks micro. It looks to me like you are arguing my point. Thanks bud!!
Era 11 vrys is better then era 12 barb by a little. Thing about barbs is we never want or ask for other classes to be nerfed. If someone does send em our direction and we will straighten them out. Hope you get your build back at some point but I am still 100% correct that vrys in full form would produce better results then rend.

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Barbs are not homogeneous in their opinion. Players who main barbarians have asked for nerfs to other classes including some who had top 10 worldwide clears.

In terms of greater rift efficiency Era 11 wizards (not neessarily vyr/chant wizards) are similar/slightly better at top GRs in GR efficiency in comparison to era 12 barbarians. I have not dissected the data for wizards based on class sets. For barbarians, it is almost exclusively ww/rend barbs.

I suspect that if you look specifically at era 11 vyr/chantodo the results may be slightly different.

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Blizz has already said that she will balance at 130 @ 5k, this shows that she will balance around players who are NOT trying to push. So … I ask you, why would the player base care if the balance was around the top of the leaderboard?

The problem is, this method of balance around 130 @ 5k would NOT work to measure the REAL power of a build. If your goal is for all classes, all builds to have the closest possible power, the correct thing to do is balance on the top of the leaderboard.

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I think everyone is forgetting the human factor of the leaderboards in your arguments.

The number of wizard players pushing versus the barbarians could also be lower due to the fact that they have not gotten any love in a few patches.

Why continue to push with Vyrs season after season?

Many top players switch to the most efficient class or just push with the shiniest new toys. So comparing the top of the board era to era without taking into consideration who is pushing and how many are pushing is pointless.

Pushing 140+ means plugging 100’s of keys or more and if it’s the same set season after season the best players don’t even bother.

Bassdude is right you should look at the middle of the 1000 and compare how that group stacks up against each other. It is much wider sample size and more indicative of how the top player base for that era performs.

Otherwise you are basing your hypothesis on the performance of the outliers and that’s bad science.

You can do that by looking at greater rift efficiency that considers the top 1000 clears on a per GR tier score.

In general. top clears are reflective of GR efficiency with some notable exceptions such as era 11 necromancers due to some players using thorns necromancer build.

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Because changes aimed at players at the top of the board affects everyone? They nerf the build at top and suddenly people that aren’t pushing now can’t clear the GRs they used to be able to.

Not everyone plays in groups or gathers big packs of mobs to rush them down.

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So, if it affects “all”, it is valid that the balance is done through the top of the leaderboard, IF the objective is to balance each build. :slightly_smiling_face:

Again, what is the difference if these people make 120 or 110 (obviously this difference would never be so big if the balance was around the top)
? … What will this solve? Nothing at all … The player base will STILL be less competitive than people who are really dedicated and play in groups.

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No, balance should account for the majority of players, not that one guy that got the perfect rift.

The difference is exactly what I said earlier: you shouldn’t nerf most players just to target the people at the top of the leaderboard. The tactics used for pushing aren’t the kind of way people who are not pushing use.

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This majority includes those who have been playing RIFTS T8 for 7 years only solo. Is this majority referring? The problem is that this “majority” does not care … Who cares, does whatever it takes to be competitive. For those who play GR 110 solo, who play casually, only in a non-competitive way, nothing will change. If you think it will change anything, I would like you to explain it to me.

Are you saying that if I need to collect data on the real performance of an F1 car, I should call my grandma to be the driver? In addition, low-level players also enjoy perfect maps.

For his reasoning, Wiz Bazooka should take a big buff, as we don’t see this build being used by the base of players with good times.

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Of course it will change for them too if you nerf the build.

Apples and Oranges.

Wizard bazooka was unintentionally abusing mechanics. Bad example to use.

Could you explain what exactly is going to change?

No, they’re exactly the same, it’s about collecting accurate performance data.

Everyone knows that this build was extremely OP, which is why this example was appropriate. You just missed the point, it was never about that, it’s about “balance”.

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Obviously, they won’t be able to complete the GRs they used to.

No it’s Apples and Oranges.

You’re trying to compare a Sport where each team only has two drivers to a videogame where thousands of players don’t even come close to the top players of the leaderboards.

And yet Blizzard killed the build instead of weakening it (and in the process screwed over other builds). Very bad example.

And what is the difference between a 110 and a 120?

No, I am comparing a situation, a peculiarity of an action. You are a long way from understanding the point here.

She hindered other builds and killed SP because she is incompetent. And the example is why she was a nerf and not HOW she was. The example is 100% effective, you who can not understand the point, again.

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all threads are about competition between humans, instead of blasting mobs.
-the game caters for that big part of the playerbase.
-it shouldn’t, this is an aRPG, not a FPS. :nauseated_face: