It’s in the name. “Cheat” codes. You already have your answer.
Just for my own interest, I did a quick search using a couple of different search engines for “definition of pay to win game” then looked at the results. It’s not a definitive method by any means, but that’s because we don’t have a recognized authority like the Merriam-Webster dictionary or similar.
The results were very similar. Pay to win is when you may pay extra money in addition to the advertised cost of the game itself to gain some sort of competitive advantage. I ran into a few nuances, like people who argue paying for time is not P2W, but I’d say 90%+ of my results were all-inclusive. As gamers, we know what the term means.
We expect a game to cost money. We pay the developers. Then we want everyone who plays to play by the same rules, and we don’t want rules that allow a player to swipe his credit card again to gain a competitive advantage over the standard player. It’s pretty clear that being able to get access to power that would otherwise be gated by a requirement to play a long period of time is that kind of competitive advantage. You get the power earlier than the standard player without having to do the same in-game work of the standard player - and that’s a corruption of the concept of fairness - everyone follows the same rules. Cosmetics offer no competitive advantage which is why people don’t object to them.
You are unable to have a normal discussion.
But at least you might finally have started to grasp what a strawman is.
See, this is what you are saying.
And also why my “could have been a strawman” of what you are saying, were not actually a strawman. Since it literally is what you are saying.
Anyone, except you apparently, considers performance enhancing drugs cheating, even though they cant make someone without any arms, legs, and eyes, win marathon against the best runner in the world. Obviously. They are still cheating. Claiming otherwise is absurd.
Probably. But that seems neither here nor there.
As for time mattering in video games. Indeed it does!
So you managed to learn what a strawman is, and forget it again, within a single post. Not impressive.
You do not get Gems in T1 of Lost Ark. Some skill points only become available in T2 as well. And so on.
Since you are talking about something you clearly dont understand, it might at least help.
Which I have not disagreed with. And then you literally make a strawman in your reply…
Try again?
Anyway, this really is the problem with your strawmen. You start believing them yourself.
I have not said that nothing else than gear matters in Lost Ark. I have said gear massively is the thing that matters the most. By a huge margin. It literally is what unlocks progression. No other system does that. It matters even more than in D3.
However, that does not mean there are nothing else that matters. Point is; those things are also P2W, and even if they were not, the parts that were P2W would remain P2W.
If you could only P2W 1% of your total power, it would continue to be P2W.
Seriously read the posts you respond to.
Lost Ark does not really have builds. It has loadouts.
But yeah, without gear you dont have a build that can do anything. You would be stuck in the lvl 1 area or something close.
Yes, I am saying you cant jump into T3 content by gathering runes, skill points etc.
I freaking literally told you that the game is gear checked. It will not allow you into the new content, unless you have specific ilvls on your gear. No amount of skill points, runes etc. will allow you to bypass that.
And if you do have that ilvl gear, then the runes etc. are not required for you to get into T3, at all. They just offer a small bonus compared to your gear.
You can compare it to D3s legendary gems for example. Do they matter? Sure. Do they matter as much as your gear items? Not even a little.
If you need more examples, this is another strawman.
And you wouldn’t have to farm anything in T1 if you can go to T3. Getting T1 gear at T3 is useless.
This literally is what I am saying though, and you are again just throwing around so many strawmen, that you cant keep your story straight.
Paying to skil the gameplay is pay to win. You are skipping time spent.
Yes, again, that really should be easy to understand.
Yes. Honestly, when you can do that, the thing you are doing cant be considered a game anymore. A game is supposed to have the same rules for all players (well, all players playing the same role anyway, as many games have nom-mirrored balancing (cant remember the actual word all of a sudden) of course; in football/soccer the rules for a goalkeeper is different from the other players. But for two goalkeepers it is the same).
And sure, by this definition, stuff like motor sport is usually not a game (some sub-genres in motor sport is, depends on how restrictive the rules on the hardware is). And I’d very much argue it isn’t. It can still be a sport. But not a game.
Hmm, I see you miss the point again. I am talking about the differences of a CC warrior that didn’t start playing when the game launched. No he/she comes in after about 8 years after the game launches. Now tell me that if a player is able to acquire near perfectly rolled primals already won’t already have a higher paragon and everything else compared to the new player that is the CC warrior. Which means that swiping means nothing to the ones that didn’t swipe and have been around for that long. You will not have an advantage over him.
If the gear in Lost Ark is more akin to being a key to open the T3 content along with a small support for the build you are playing then it isn’t pay to win. That is unless the skill points and the rest only add about one point for every 10 billion points the gear adds. Which means gear is everything to you and the rest that think like you do.
The amount of the advantage is important otherwise gear is everything.
I am not winning if I can’t kill or take a long period of time and throw a lot of corpses at T3 content. So if I stay in T3 content in time those that didn’t pay will catch up to me and even pass me because they have the things that I don’t the skills, runes, etc…
Look cutting down the time it takes to improve your golf game. Which thereby means you should have less strokes than those that didn’t pay. Less strokes means better scores when you are competing, so that is an advantage over those that don’t pay.
What you have found is your opinion is match by other gamers. Because it is an opinion as far as what is pay to win to you instead of being a well defined term that is set in stone for all and the majority agree on the matter.
The developers are the ones that put those things in there. Buying gear from the devs MTX store isn’t the same as buying gear from illegal RMT third party sales. One is legit and the other isn’t.
Instead of addressing my point of gear is everything which is what you are saying. Meaning that in Lost Ark I don’t need the runes, skill points or anything else that is deemed by the devs as part of character progression. All I need would be the gear. Because everything else only adds one point per 10 billion points that gear adds.
Instead of attacking that above comment you use a straw man to talk about cheating instead.
If I had that ilvl 1300 gear in Lost Ark and played only T3 content, never touching T1 or T2 I wouldn’t have what both of those tiers could give me. Which would make it more difficult to clear T3 if I could do it at all. That is unless you are saying that what you get from both of those tiers are so meaningless that it only adds a point for every 10 billion points that gear adds.
So that article that I linked earlier cannot teach me anything. If I have to look at my personal game experience is the only thing that can teach me anything. Then I have to say that no one has ever learned anything at all about the game. Everyone is blowing smoke up my nose. So why bother reading posts on the forums because good players won’t learn what I will in time learn on my own.
Your comment is also running close to going down the rabbit hole of a catch 22. Where if I haven’t played the game don’t dare make any comments on it.
What you are trying to convince me of that every one point of an advantage that skill points give in Lost Ark is worth 10 billion points that come from gear.
Look if I got that gear in Lost Ark by paying for it. Then decided to remain at T3 content where it would take along time to get what I need compared with those that would actually play through the game gaining the skills and the rest. But to you those things are meaningless only adding one point for every 10 billion points gear adds to you.
Again have you ever played the game. Because if you haven’t then you have the same problem I do. You don’t know anything at all about the game.
To me it seems like Lost Ark gear is much like D2’s gear. Where if Blizz sold it for real money then sure you would have an advantage. But don’t dare try to convince me that all that you would need to do is level up and only spend attribute points. Because that is insanity if you do try that.
For every one point of bonus from skill points and the rest you get 10 billion points from gear according to you. So don’t bother picking those things up or using them at all.
Hmm, so all of what you get that isn’t gear from T1 and T2 is also at T3. If yes then how can you get skills that are only available in T2 if you don’t play that content.
He’s not that wrong though. You could keep your load out skills unranked and it wouldn’t make a significant difference. Obviously youd lose some overall damage and have none of the benefits they may provide. It’s mostly in the gear, similar to D3, but at least in D3 you have a vast amount of gear to find. In LA you have your T1, T2, and T3 sets that all you do is farm for mats to upgrade.
then, someone, who is not you (as you are not a reliable source for anything in the world) is welcome to correct me, as I am not a native english speaker, but “X is everything” is a saying, that does not literally mean it is 100%.
If I say, “My wife means everything to me”, it does not mean that I am somehow able to survive without oxygen or water.
It just means that is it the most important, by far. Which is the case for ilvl gear in Lost Ark.
And even if you wanted a semantics war, I went to great length describing this beyond “gear is everything”, explaining how gear is the only thing that allows you to progress. the other stuff is just a bonus. Nice to have, sure, but not needed for progressing.
What the previous tiers give you in gear, runes etc. are completely irrelevant after you move to the next tier.
No, it really would not.
Yes, that is how it works.
When you hit ilvl 1100, you can go in and start farming T3 stuff, no matter what you have beside gear. Nothing else matters enough to stop you. Having 50 extra skill points is insignificant in that comparison.
And I know, because I have not farmed lots of skill points. Those are for the most part extremely farm heavy, and again, not at all needed to progress.
Indeed it cant. You seem like people who watch Fox News, believing they understand the world.
Not the only thing no. But your own experience sure would be better.
Not once have I said that. But maybe dont pretend to know it all.
Uh, also, that is not in any way a catch-22. Not talking about the game does not in any way prevent you from playing the game.
Close enough for it to be true at least.
Again, NO AMOUNT of skill point unlocks in Lost Ark will allow you to move into T3 content. Ever. That is how the game is designed. And you dont seem willing to accept it.
Yes, I have. Unlike you, everything I have said on this is from personal experience.
So you agree with what everyone are telling you then?
If Blizzard sold D2 gear (or D3 gear) then both games would very much be Pay To Win.
I have no idea what you are talking about there. And neither do you it seems.
Why wouldnt you bother picking them up?
If you decided not to pick them up, it simply wouldn’t prevent you from progressing.
If you decided not to pick up gear, that would prevent you from progressing.
Notice the difference?
Most non-gear things comes in T1, T2 and T3 equivalents. So no need to go back and farm those previous things. Like Gems, Runes etc.
Skill points do not. But then for the most part they dont come from content that can be considered T1,T2 or T3. It is more side-content (such as exploring the game world thoroughly). But you know what, the skill points that do come from Tier content… when you buy gear, that allows you to get those skill points.
Even if you have no player skill, and can’t get skill points from T2 content yourself, buy some T3 gear, and now you can easily get those T2 skill points. Thanks to the immense gear scaling.
1, so why bother coming back at all?
2, you just going to ignore the changes that have been made and ignore the reason why it was disliked. It had nothing to do with the content itself, it had to do with that is how you gained access to GRs. If it was additional content like it is now, no one would have had an issue. But then a troll’s gotta troll.
Alright I am sorry, you and Shadout are the all knowing all wise on Lost Ark and you don’t even need to have played it at all. Where I couldn’t possibly have learned anything unless I get it from either you or Shadout. No one else knows anything about the game other than you two.
The following article is junk how dare it say that skill points are a very important element of Lost Ark. The person that wrote is dumber than a stump like me right.
How dare anyone make videos that tell you how to acquire all skill points since you don’t need them and can decide not to spend a single skill point. Just focus on mats and gear.
And this article below from reddit that the OP worked five hours on doesn’t know squat either. He is probably dumber than me and I am at the lowest end on stupidity right. Even though no one in the article actually said that all of those other things are not needed.
Even though the article says that Pay 2 Win hasn’t been well defined with a universal definition that is wrong. I will just bring all games that are in question to you two and if you call them pay to win then they are pay to win. After all know one can know more about pay to win or any other games that you two. That applies to games you have never even played or heard of.
Why even one of the replies basically says that pay to win is more of an opinion instead of a well defined universally accepted term. Where everyone with their own opinion is both right and wrong at the same time.
That is what you are stating all wise and all knowing guru of Lost Ark.
So then If I were to state basic facts about this game that I either learned from playing it or learned from others that wouldn’t be true unless you and Beefhammer say it is true. Which means that you are the ones that told everyone else the bad monster types that need to be skipped. No one else could’ve determined that on their own Mr. Guru of gaming. And like Beefhammer you know about all games, even ones that you haven’t played or even heard of.
Take a look at my reply for Beefhammer above and you will get an interesting read. Might even be fascinating according to Mr. Spock’s use of the word.
So awakening skills are junk as well.
Did you ever bother to level up any of your skills at all. After all skill points are not an important part of Lost Ark right. So that means that all of the skill points you have actually earned you haven’t spent a single skill point.
If everything else is just blowing smoke up my nose. Where I cannot take my personal life experiences of knowing that when two or more things that confirm what others have told me then it must be true. And those things are all based on what I already know about the subject based on personal knowledge of other areas of life and reality. You might be surprised that I know a lot more than you think I know.
No, it is saying that I can’t learn anything at all unless I play the game. But I digress I just need to let you and Beefhammer teach me. Everyone else in the world is as dumb as I am about games right.
So then how important is spending skill points. I guess you could decide to only spend attribute points and you would do fine in D2 and D2R because they don’t give you any significant benefits.
So if that went right buy you I will say it this way. You could get to max level in D2 and D2R without spending a single skill point.
In Lost Ark you can go through the entire game without ever spending a single skill point. It is because skill points are garbage compared to gear.
