Angelic, Demonic and Ancestral stats are a bad design choice

Because it’s presented in the blog? They are intended to act as enablers…

Care to show the line(s) in the blog that gives you that impression?

Really? The whole part of the blog is about that…

thats just the question
its all about the numbers
i would be glad if they dont lock us in and just throw us in farming hell
means: if you have found your optimal items you will have like 80 angelic 80 demonic 80 ancestral and you will have unlocked all of your affixes
if you have a suboptimal gear, you will have 100 angelic 50 demonic and 70 ancestral, so you will have some points over the top, you are not using to unlock, and demonic will have some skills that you could not unlock

i think, thats what david kim has mentioned
if you find a super strong item, that has nice affixes and stats but not the demonic power, you would need, to optimize your build, you will have toi decide, to eighter just keep the item for its power, or keep the demonic power for your “optimal” point allocation

exactly :slight_smile:

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Or you could find a new piece that screw your balance of requirements but has insane affixes.

so it all comes down to "IF you are able to potentially find all the gear, to optimize a triple power build

and people, going for a single of dual power build will just have a much better time, when farming :slight_smile:

Problably. Some builds are harder to assemble than others. But I still don’t know though. RNG could screw you and give you all different powers when you only need 1.

Diablo 2’s system was very badly implemented because Vitality was the one above all others.

You can go on about using Dex to get better defenses but the reality is that the best build was almost always to get just enough Str/Dex to use your equipment and then dump everything else into Vitality.

Barbarians that put points into Energy wasted those points. Yes I’ve played them with Enigma before. They wasted those points because they didn’t put those points into Vitality.

Diablo 2’s attribute system did not work.

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I mean, it worked, but it was shallow and uninteresting.

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Let’s make up some artificial numbers to work with here for the sake of debate.

The maximum amount of angelic, demonic or ancestral power that you can have is 300. So splitting the three evenly at 33% each would result in 100 of each.

Scenario A: 300 angelic power, 0 demonic power, 0 ancestral power
Scenario B: 200 angelic power, 100 demonic power, 0 ancestral power
Scenario C: 100 angelic power, 100 demonic power, 100 ancestral power

Is this debate centered on which scenario will be more sought after than any other? When we can’t possibly know that for reasons that don’t need to be mentioned.

Taking it further. The premonition here is that the viability of each scenario won’t be equal. True or false?

the point is, in scenario A, you also only need 100 angelic power, to unlock your skills
you just dont need any of the others, because you only choose affixes that need 100 angelic power to get unlocked
while guy C needs skills of all 3 powers and needs to exactly balance out those 100/100/100

Just to note on this since we seem to mean different things when we say stats: We don’t actually know if Angelic/Demonic/Ancestral Power will be a character attribute in the same way that Strength, Dexterity, Vitality, and Energy/Magic were in Diablo 1 and 2.

When I say stats I’m talking about anything that can show up on an item, which does include some attributes but we don’t actually know if we’ll get points to assign into one of the 3 powers unless I missed something in the post.

Also you keep saying “useful to every class” and I think it’s important to note again there is a distinction between class and build. The two are NOT the same thing.

Every stat should be useful for every class, but not every stat needs to be useful for every build.

That’s why I brought up +15% fire damage. It’s useful to a Sorceress as a class, but it’s not useful to every Sorceress. It’s not even about being stubborn, just acknowledging that some stats aren’t very good for what you are building.

I don’t think it’s a bad thing to get an item drop and go “This is a great item, just not a great item for me specifically”.

It’s why I also advocate for trading, because then there is less pressure on needing every good rare drop to be good for your build specifically. A good item can be traded for another good item that’s better for your build.

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Thats what I am interested to see. Will we want to stack a particlar affix as much as we can because of its passive benefit, or will it just be about what affixes you unlock and once you do its better to stack something else? Will it be possible to unlock all the affixes of each power, and would talents/skill combinations even encourage that with overlapping buffs, or is it wasted?

While it would come down to a numbers game, I don’t like the idea of each power veing tied to specific, limited affix pools. These powers are setup in a way where they could simultaneously impact an aspect of a skill that is ‘in their wheelhouse’. It would be a shame to encourage ignoring other powers to focus on a specific one.

If they retain the limited affix pool per power, I would hope that you still have room to build up at least one other power for its passive benefit (even if you didnt have any desired unlockable affixes for that power), and that the affixes chosen for that power thematically and mechanically benefit the most from that power, so you aren’t stuck stacking angelic power to unlock an affix but don’t care about its passive benefit.

My fear is this. For debates sake, pretend also this is how they do this.
Demonic = Fire + Bleed
Ancestral = Lightning + Crushing Blow
Angelic = Cold + Cool Down Reduction

If I have 300 points to put amongst option A B or C. My fear, is that option C will not be viable to “win”, and I’m now required to go option A in order to compete in PvP or ladder races, or to complete content. Which means that if I choose to go fire, Bleed is now THE option to pair with it. Crushing blow and cooldown potentially out the window.

This is of course, all hypothetical. I’m just throwing it out there now, for blizz, to please not do it that way.

Use angelic, demonic, ancestral if you need to, but please avoid locking it up that way.

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WE WANT ATTRIBUTE SYSTEMS

Okay, here is a new take on attribute systems…

BAD CHOICE!

Yet you lack facts of the system and honestly did not read the post:

“Here are a couple of work-in-progress examples to better illustrate what these affixes do (again, none of this is final and could change considerably)”

you will probably be able to go lightning+bleed
it will just be a farming hell :smiley:

I’m really trying to understand how this is a drawback to the system but am almost positively certain we’re misunderstanding each other somewhere. Scenario A goes scenario A because they want to unlock the prerequisites for affix that require more than 100 angelic power. Where is the disconnect here? This promotes player decision making does it not?

If Scenario A takes 5 minutes to farm.
Scenario B takes 15 minutes to farm.
Scenario C can’t even farm the area.

Is it really a choice? When you start locking groups of affixes together, you are no longer choosing what affixes to use. If I choose a fire character, i’m going to pick the affixes that are already at their highest potential to synergize with it.

Make sense?

At the end of the day, it’s all hypothetical and balance.

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That is correct stat=attribute (the kind you could spend in d2 such as str, vit, etc) and affix = an associative power of an item such as cold/fire/lightning resistance.

For the sake of debate let us assume that the allotment of power is only acquired by the items that provide it.

Build being an extension of a class, sure, not one in the same.

We agree that it is not a bad thing then to get an item drop that is a great item but not great for me specifically. Okay, I’m with you so far. Help me understand what part is fundamentally flawed from your perspective.

No, actually, you lost me. Yes, it is all hypothetical and thus very difficult to follow. What I’m trying to understand is where the proposed system is fundamentally flawed with respect to the parameters of balancing.