Honestly ?, think the time window to go “conventional” is probably closed, so it’s good thing they go with more revolutionary approach and kinda “shake up” the convention… Next update is probably around Feb/Mar next year, hope to see a more general picture of the A/D/A system in action
Pretty sure for skills themselves would be enough to have D2 style skill-points in them along with a slight buff by talent tree (if need be) and here & there have a legendary affix that would change the item to do something more different but not a “must-have”
Never meant that they should just go Classic D2 style on us, I think Blizz can deliver a lot of things at once…but I feel that this is the wrong way to go. World bosses, PvP arena/gladiator death matches, ladder races, ladder events, make the original 7 classes from LoD with facelifts(as they are doing currently), get the talent trees put in, add the legendary consumables…can do quite a lot while setting up a solid foundation with a TON of room to improve with expansions. Time will tell!
The point is, you are not forced to only adapt to 1 of those powers i mean we have seen items with 2 on them
But i also think, the affixes should somehow fit to the themes and exclude elements completely
Yes, I would rather have all affix/power combinations be possible, because it opens the way for more build viability.
A whirlwind barb who focused on ancestral power would still be very different from a whirlwind barb who focused on angelic or demonic, because the other 5 skills slotted and gear equipped would be tailored to the strengths of the power they focused on.
Angelic power focused whirlwind barb might take a ton more self buffs in combination with cooldown reduction in an effort to maximize uptime.
Ancestral whirlwind barb would take a bunch of on hit effects to create all sorts of chaos as he whirlwinds through mobs.
A demonic whirlwind barb might stack damage over time and debuff effects to apply them as he whilrwinds.
However, if only angelic power grants access to affixes tied to whirlwind, then only the first one might be viable.
Every affix enabled by a particular power is tied to that power. So if certain affixes are clutch for whirlwind, and its bound to angelic, then angelic will be the ‘whirlwind power’.
K, I’ll try to explain visually when have the time… Don’t mind certain routes empowering certain skills (or talents) as opposed to other routes, IMO it’s MUCH WORSE to make everything works with everything, cause you just end up with the same problem D3 Vanilla had - every route has a strongest possible roll/item just need to “grind” for it a bunch of endless hours…
Versus one route for every skill, and it has a strongest possible roll/item and you acquire it without grinding a bunch?
Doesn’t sound like a very compelling game to me. Sounds like a game with little build diversity, weak itemization, and shallow customization. Sounds like something you max out in a few weeks and then stop playing until the next season, like D3, because finding the same item with 1% more cdr isn’t worth 10 hours of rifts.
A little ourside the scope of this thread, but this is exactly where trade would come in - to facilitate acquiring the pieces you want by trading good stuff you find but don’t need for stuff you do.
Opting to have shallow build diversity/itemization and easily acquired BiS items because you don’t want to play the game much is something I just won’t understand.
THAT is a consequence to how D3 worked… And now as a result you’re just getting/putting/extracting only the max-lvl into account, but remember that each time you progress a character you might wanna progress differently
And frankly it’s not much of a problem to have less hours to gain decent gear, there’s always something left to “perfect”… Hunting for Legendary Affix consumables is one thing… Ladder/PvP/special world-boss raids & such for the extra “endgame” might be other… Apparently they haven’t come up with what exactly it is (yet)
Think of it this way - if every Fire mage from WoW could become a Frost just needed to find a different gear (in a week or two or whatever), what’s the point of building your Mage as a fire mage in the first place ?, I’d MUCH RATHER prefer pre-set differences rather than everything works with everything, you just need to grind long enough to get that
Except you want progressing differently to mean ‘here is your cookie cutter build if you want to use this skill effectively’ just like D3. Its a weak argument to say that you can experience different builds as you level, when it doesn’t matter, and then become your choice of cookie at max level. This is a terrible, truly awful idea and is one taken directly from D3. Character building must start at level one and carry all the way through to end game.
So perhaps, and I am just spitballing here, the thing you are trying to perfect should be your gear, among other things, and not just trying to get 1% more cdr, but bonuses to skills, talents, awesome Power ratings, and whatever else your build benefits from. Crazy idea, right? You won’t need to have all these perfect affixes and rolls to ‘be a fire mage’, but when you do get the items you are after you will become a better one. Just like in Diablo 2, when you were a summoner necro from level 1 to max, and you acquired gear that made you a better summoner along the way. You didn’t just magically become a summoner at level 90 when you get your item with the ‘required’ stats on it.
… what? In WoW if you want be a fire mage you hit the fire spec button. If you want to be an ice mage you hit the frost spec button.
Also, take your broken example to D4.
“Think of it this way - if every frenzy barb in d4 could become a ww barb and just needed to find a different gear (in a week or two or whatever), what’s the point of building your barbarian as a frenzy barb in the first place?”
You are advocating for easy to acquire BiS items for every Blizzard Approved build, with little grinding/effort, and then somehow, bafflingly saying, “Imagine if we could do it - whats the point then??”.
Exactly. Whats the point of playing the game when you can roll any build into BiS gear in a week or two, and then its just hunting for 1% different versions of the item.
Did you even think this out before replying? It makes no sense.
Edit: Easy to learn, difficult to master. You level up and put points into your talens and skills, find whatever gear helps along the way. You get to max level and then start finding high level legendaries with good stats. As you push further into end game and found some decent pieces, you start min/maxing your power(s) of choice, based on your skills, gear, and talents. Now it becomes difficult, which is a core part of the system. Now you need to not only build up the powers that help your skills, but find/trade for items that have your powers and buff the skills/talents that are key to your build. Seems like you just want: easy to learn, and once you do you have masted it.
Actually it makes PERFECT SENSE lol, I guess the problem was my example…
Let’s say you can get +7 to meteor from all items and +50% all res regardless if you went Angelic/Demonic or Ancestral route
WHAT’s the point of having gone to either of those routes if your final “endgame” is maximize one skill and the required defensive/survival stats no matter which “power route” you went for ?.. Aand the difference being… Just hope the RNG procs your wy sooner than later ?
AGAIN, the final outcome should quite differ (IMO) no matter how much you’d like to admit there would be “gear lock builds” no matter which build you’d go for one way or another (hopefully not but it’s often the case), it’s just making things more frustrating to make things “less useful very much more often” while having the drawback being not having endgame differences
Lol in all caps, bolded, and italicized, huh? Your example made zero sense, which you admit, and then say it actually made sense. K.
Ill just quote myself and maybe you should actually exercise your ability to read, and then actually try thinking about it.
Here ya go. The same skill, but extremely different skill, stat, talent, and gear choices made depending on what power you choose to focus on. Have it your way and there’s no choice. That’s the point.
The thing i was thinking about with the system is that the problem relies on getting rolls for the 3 stat types ON YOUR ITEMS. If it was based on doing boss kills (campaign boss kills, don’t screw over the solo players) or your total amount of monster kills, elite kills, exc. (or each of those is for one individual stat) then it would work much better. The problem that arises is that you immediately lose 1/3 of the item choices if it is based on your items (you will pick 1 stat and ignore the rest) or it will be too easy to get max in all 3 and be basically irrelevant.
It would be WAY too hard to balance this if it is on your items. It is always recommended to have multiple scales of growth (Multiple systems to “level up” or improve) to make your character stronger, you could have small bonuses for passing thresholds, or even better things like cosmetic rewards.
While it is a new idea and i give props to the devs for putting their ideas out there it would not work very well without investing ALOT of time into testing and balancing due to it being on the items itself.
Exactly.
The exclusive base affixes will not work well. They either need to be completely random (which yes, will increase the gear grind), or all basic affixes needs to be available without Power requirements, but with a highest tier of the affixes being locked behind Power requirements (like, 5% crit available for everyone, 6% crit needs Demonic). Or alternatively, make the Power affixes unique takes on the base affixes; like “+5% crit chance against debuffed enemies” - allowing people to go for base crit chance (or reistances, dmg types, +skills etc) no matter which Power they focus on, but giving each Power unique perks.
That is the route they should go if they want these 3 powers to influence the game in a substantial way.
Give all skills an effect that activates on having high amounts of a Power (how much could vary, like “Ultimate” skills gets a high requirement, “generator skills” got a low requirement etc.)
Make them like D3 skill runes essentially, just unlocked through gear stats.
Dont make the Powers meaningful by locking up to 2/3 of affixes away based on which Power you picked.
Yeah.
That would be another way to go. Though spending a whole affix for 1% CB would likely be essentially useless. But something like 5-10% maybe.
Of course the problem here is that not all affixes can scale like that (+skills for example). But then +skills should maybe never be locked behind Powers.
Wow this turned in to a different thing all entirely. Yet a huge thing it seems.
It seems a lot like the idea of having these stats work on various skills, but I have to say that is a very bad idea that will limit players even further, to a point where Diablo 3’s itemization works better.
Since these are random affixes, getting the want you need is in no way guaranteed, making your gearing and thus playing option unreliable.
It only makes sense that a base power attuned to an affix that is influenced by said base power, augment each other. It wouldn’t make much sense for a power to be attuned to a skill that doesn’t even utilize the power. A lot of people presumed given the sample size used with the sole purpose of exemplifying the concept of the system, that certain universal things that can be utilized by every build would be tied or “locked” to certain powers. For example, people presume that you will only be able to find 1 type of resistance (cold, fire, lightning, poison) attuned to 1 of the three angelic, demonic or ancestral powers. There is no reason to take the statement that “each power will have a list of affix’s attuned to it” is any indication that affixes such as resistances that have no effect from any of the powers at all can’t / won’t be available on any combination of the angelic, demonic and ancestral powers.
Should that be the case - it can still be done, it will just take a lot more effort to balance things to create a level playing field after all is said and done.
I guess 