A plea to not make D2R an eSport

Diablo II: Resurrected General Discussion
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I’ve been thinking about this for weeks as I watch all these ideas to “improve d2R.” I have a plea to both the developers and the community as a whole to not turn this game into the sweatfest that almost every other major game as become. When this game came out 20 or so years ago, not everything spell was effective or ‘balanced’ with everything else. Some classes did cows better than others, some did mephisto, diablo, or baal better, some were great at pvp. The game wasn’t hyper balanced to fit the needs of the esport sweats, wannabes, and streamers.

There are endless games that cater to that audience already. We do NOT need to turn a 20 year old dungeon crawler into yet another one. We do not need “improvements” to vanilla icecream.

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Haha, funny way to put it. I agree!

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I’ve made the argument many times that esports is like putting a casual frog in a pot of water then slowly setting it to a boil.

To keep the “esport” athletes playing, they have to constantly balance the meta around the top 1% of gameplay so it doesn’t stagnate and become boring (to play or watch). Overwatch is one of many examples.

The issue with this is simple, you’re nerfing and buffing characters NOT based on how the average player performs with that character, but whether or not a top tier player will completely wreck a tournament scene with that same character.

You are stuck as a developer with making a skill ceiling high enough so that the “esport” teams look competent and badass, but not so high that an average casual is going to be completely lost learning and playing the character’s kit.

And inevitably, all the sweaty gamers seeking to imitate the current meta builds & counters will copy the professionals; not because they have the skill to perform with that character at the level needed, nor because they’re actually having fun with that character but because the esport scene has completely sideswiped the overall direction of gameplay.

This ultimately leads to gameplay NOT being balanced around the average player’s experience, but what IS best for the esports scene. If you think those two interests coincide in a practical way more than once in a decade, I have a bridge to sell you.

Now before everyone chimes in with their, “but I only play to have fun” that’s fine. I’m not talking to you specifically and there are exceptions to every argument.

However, I personally do not care for what the esport’s scene has done to gaming, because the shareholders and publishers have prioritized balancing for spectacle and views at the highest level of play, over balancing the average player’s experience.

If a game sets out with “esports” as a goal, then for me it is already tainted beyond redemption. I can usually avoid these games with some consumer research. This is in stark contrast to pushing a game into an esport and mangling it on the road to the trash bin.

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Just for once in the last 10 years I want a game that is for me. I recently left wow because it’s so obvious that the developers there have no regard for players like me. The e-sport and streaming culture is corrosive to the overall community. I hope we get the game we have 20 years ago cause I doubt those people will hang around and we might have a legitimate chance of creating a place for those of us without delusions of grandeur.

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How can D2 be e-sport? I dont get it. Also stop being afraid to improve what is bad about the game guys.

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I didn’t think WoW could be an eSport but they found a way to mess that up too. There is always some stupid idea to make it one.

It’s the eSport mindset and culture more than anything. Improvements to you may not be improvements to those of us who liked the game as it was. Not every skill needs to be viable or balanced at the end game and we don’t need to make this like wow where we bicker about the upcoming nerf to XYZ. If you want a closely tuned and competitive environment where every skill could be made to work, just go play poe. You still won’t be happy with it cause that mindset is never happy. At least if we just get D2R that is true to the original, some of us will be happy.

I don’t mind some basic QoL changes, stash stuff etc. This constant back and forth about ‘balance’ is the toxic sludge coming out of the back end of competitive gaming though.

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QoL changes have already been discussed and implemented.

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We need qol changes to improve ancient game…

But its not anyhow related to e-sport. Ok lets say we will make pvp duels with leagues as e-sport. How is that bad? Its not, it is actualy great for game.

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Maybe that’s what you are used to and there are endless outlets already there to scratch that itch. Believe me when I say there are many people in this world that are sick and tired of esports and streamers and tryhards and all we want is to go home to 2000.

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But its not 2000, its 2021.

Nobody is forcing you to watch streamers or e-sport also. Both are helping with popularity of game tho so its a good thing.

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The whole point of remastering a game from 20 years ago is so we can go back.
Obviously we aren’t forced to watch them but like Salve said above, when you have that crowd in the game, development is geared towards them and the overall culture of the game steers in that direction. When the game isn’t balanced for the min/max sweat they will move on. If we had one game, just one friggin game, made for regular people, we could go there and never leave.

Instead of every game trying to be everything to everyone. How about we have a little bit of a split. Just make WoW an all e-sport thing, mythic plus yada yada, just dont even pay attention to casuals (as if they have in years), and carve out a space for us in d2.

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We are playing “20 years ago” like 15 years as game stopped changing significantly. I dont want to back to play the same with remaster, i want to move forward and improve what wasnt good.

If i would want to play the same old D2, i dont need remaster for that.

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What wasn’t good to you is invaluable to many others. You have 20 years of games that “moved forward” take your pick. I for one would much rather go back.

They don’t need to do to Diablo 2 what the special editions did for star wars. They could have kept those first 3 movies exactly the same and upgraded the visuals and it would have been great, instead they started messing with the formula and pushing crap all over the screen. Significant changes to d2 = New Coke. You upgrade the bottle it is in, but dont mess with the recipe.

I’m sure diablo 4 will have plenty of moving forward, enjoy.

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No it is not, what is bad in D2 is bad for everyone, mainly plenty of useless skills. Bugs, ancient game mechanics…

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Imagine thinking that your opinion is the only valid one. You’ll never understand.

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Funny because that goes for you also.
Devs are already making QoL changes so i am obviously not only one thinking same. Majority of player base wanted QoL changes because people actualy realize some things need change.

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I never said everyone. I’ve maintained throughout this thread that I have a point of view that represents some or many players. Never said all. When you say:

That is speaking for everyone.

I trust the game design lead when says they aren’t trying to fix d2.

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You are missing the point. I want to improve what is flawed in D2, i dont want to touch what makes D2 great. Like drop for example.

You talk about fixing, you mean what? Bugs? Because they definitely need fixing and it will not show blizz in very good light if they release buggy game as hell which diablo 2 is. Not infront of people who will review game and not for new players. Imagine being new players dying to Fe bug which is in game 20 years and when you ask why its not fixed answer will be? Nah its ok its there 20 years so its fine ad doesnt need fixing, what a BS…

I can already see Angry Joe having meltdown about many bugs left in game not fixed, just like other content creators so you think it will be good for blizzard? For game itself? I think it will be pretty shamefull.

Just making new graphic would be doing only half work on remaster.

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I cornered you on your bologna there and now you claim I missed the point. I’ve already said I am okay with some QoL improvements, so I am fine with the bug fixes too, never said I wasn’t. I do not want balance changes, metas, min-maxing.

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I didnt say i want that in this topic either, i think its topic for season 2+,not for release. But then consider if some skills need rework. Look at path of diablo, they are not afraid to take big steps to improve what is bad, like vengeance skill for example to make vengeance pala more viable and fun to play. People just need to stop being afraid that changes will be bad. They will not be with right aproach and testing from player base.

Lets say i will cut mana cost of vengeance by half? Is that game breaking? Players would not like it? It opens new chances how to play the char. For example making vengeance viable skill to level up at lower levels.

Diablo 2 is great game and remaster is good chance how to improve what is not so good or even what is good to make it even better.

Every change would need discussion with player base and testing of course.

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