Can we please put Weapon Throw buffs on 300th and Boulder Toss buffs on Arreat’s. WT damage buffs do nothing for Raekor’s set and BT does nothing for Weapon Throw. (there was a time when these 2 skills complemented each other, but this is no longer the case). If we can free up a weapon slot for a weapon that actually benefits these skill that would be great!
Weapon Throw has already have hundreds of percent damage buff to their name from two different artifacts. Weapon Throw by nature has a really high effective range comparable to cast range of Wizards with sustain to match and Barbarians are highly sturdy plus mobile to avoid any kind of area denial attack that elites could toss at them. They always have position advantage when they can kite and sustain from long distances.
Compared to this Demon Hunters may also have high effective range and mobile as well but their resources are slow to regenerate and they’re fragile. You’re wishing a generator oriented build to faceroll high content and overwhelm any target with rapid firing axes while replenishing resources to the maximum with survival or resource sinks hardly be a concern. That doesn’t fly in terms of balance.
You can try and beg but I don’t think developers would warm up to that idea when it has this many extreme traits. Don’t tell me that developers don’t play their own game or argue that Barbarians are at a disadvantage or “oppressed” when scene visibly tell you all the information you need. They buffed Weapon Throw in terms of utility at the past, and amplified its attack speed because it supposed to be an utility. Any slight increase in damage would spike damage per second value out of control at the first place.
I couldn’t disagree with more and though you mentioned many of these supposed advantages (exaggerations to say the least).
This statement is just laughable. Only one player (who I consider to be an all around skilled player) has cracked GR 120 w/ WT, if I remember correctly, “any slight increase” . There is no reason why WT could be on par with HOTA (utility). You clearly don’t play WT and why you chimed in as an “authority” on the matter is beyond me. You should post in threads where you actually know what you’re talking about.
Then that’s most likely what you get. Last time I asked that player, he told me that it needs 2000% damage multiplier to be “effective” by refusing to give any benchmark. Thus I stated no other damn legendary weapon (not Sets, mind you) offer 2000% damage multiplier as a passive benefit without any interaction requirement.
On the matter of effort to risk ratio, using Weapon Throw solely removed the concern of resource sink and you deliberately deny it. I’m no authority but you won’t really go far with this argument. When effort required to play the build is minimal, or it has some extreme traits comparably to other builds then the power it offers won’t climb high either. It’s a simple concept in terms of balance.
Dude, tripple attack speed is not a joke. You can apply crowd control with ease against masses and keep them at bay. If you can deal damage with something you can sustain, why would you ever worry about cooldowns or resources? Other builds like traditional Raekor’s Boulder Toss build deserve its power because it has two constant variables (health level plus resources) that player needs to keep track of and force to make decisions for maximum efficiency.
What Weapon Throw spam offers as an interesting struggle for gameplay? Let me know.
Breaking news; I don’t have to play the build myself to see and tell you that it has extreme traits. Justify the argument instead of deflecting it. That’s what I ask. Top builds in Diablo 3 have to mind positioning, cast cycles, cooldowns, resources, buffs and many more variables in their combat flow. If you think I don’t know anything then breaking down the combat flow of Weapon Throw and its depth would help any reader following the discussion.
Well, I did bring HOTA into the conversation because these two utilities skills are comprable setups in that there is the same “effort to risk ratio” and yet HOTA has received the necessary buffs to make it viable for GR pushing. Only HOTA has a one up on WT because it is capable of gathering clusters of mob. HOTA’s a spender and WT a generator, if you don’t have a problem with HOTA then you shouldn’t have a problem with WT. Your argument is consistent.
No you can’t, again, you have no idea what you’re talking about.
Because the push viable skill rune has a very narrow and tight area of effect hence short effective range. Makes sense? HotA has to chew through the first line of monsters to reach the elites waiting behind them. This is a generic theme for usual fire oriented elemental skills.
Also it may come as a surprise to you but HotA consumes something called resource which you have to maintain. On the other hand, WT continuously generate it and has no issue with resources being maximized. There’s no struggle without any resource sink or cooldown.
A build may have an extensive trait, that surpass another build but this has to be balanced in comparison with other traits being weaker. Your build may have really good effective range, but might suffer long cooldowns like Necromancers’ Lance-LotD synergy. You may be mobile and fragile like UE Demon Hunter yet have very limited ways of managing your cooldowns. You can have good resource replenish but limited to a very demanding resource sink like Boulder Toss as well.
These are all coming up with drawbacks or some kind of dedication. None of these builds have permanently passive constant beneficial power amplification without any struggle or drawback.
They’re not the same thing. You say it yourself then hilariously deny it. One is a spender, other is a generator. Don’t tell me you can’t tell them apart.
HotA drains a “limited” resource, WT generate resource at a very rapid rate and there’s nothing you have to watch in the combat for making the struggle interesting. When resources dry up, you stop casting HotA; when would you stop spamming Weapon Throw to flow into something else?
If I’m watching my resource pool, cooldowns sinking back, contemplating my cast array to adapt and my life threshold before going for a big hit to clear high content; what exactly justifies your effortless generator spam while keeping distance and suffering no positional downsides?
Plus, HotA has limited very narrow effective range while WT can shoot a screen ahead with ricochets. Thus, increased power isn’t justified in the eyes of developers. It’s not really hard to tell, nor a complex concept.
Perhaps you can’t sustain it against Elites for long, but it won’t be too hard. Try to equip Azurewrath. I don’t think this also come up with a notoriously bad drawback; you can replace a one hander or Cube weapon slot with ease in the usual Weapon Throw builds. Anything that is crucial coming to mind that might appear as a trade off?
Most you could get from a buff would be Weapon Throw working with some other skill but still keeping its utility role to some degree. Another option is making the WT have stacks just like Frenzy Barbarian for a fast decaying windup, so you would never have positional advantage even if you can hit a screen away. Still I wouldn’t expect damage to amp up to 10x just because you want to faceroll GR135+ with your favorite build.
Weapon Throw could instead work with Overpower, too.
Saffron Wrap - The damage of your next Overpower is increased by 50-75% for every enemy hit with Weapon Throw. Up to 20 times. If Overpower only hits 3 of fewer enemies damage is increased by 150%.
Steady Strikers - Overpower deals for every point of maximum Fury 1.5 to 3.5% more damage. And gains the effect of all Runes, but costs now an additional 100 Fury to cast.
(Hack - Crushing Advance now adds 350-550% of your Thorns damage to your Weapon Throw attacks for 5 seconds.) Probably would turn gearing in an absolute nightmare.
Just gonna post, because I typed it, but not happy with it.
I’d just leave it at that, DH, and not bother trying to converse with that guy any further.
Wise advise, but will write these final words for Naksolith to further illustrate his unawareness.
Have you played HOTA? As you stated "There’s no struggle" here, resources don’t “dry up”, you “don’t stop casting HOTA”. If you’re a noob, then you can add a little RCR.
Have you played Raekor’s? What “demanding resource sink”, one Charge in to density and you’re at max Fury. What is useless is the increased Fury caps that are unlocked by WT, no one uses them.
So does WT. Weapon Throw doesn’t pierce, at point blank it only takes one enemy to disrupt your assult on an elite. And Ricochet is not as effective as you believe it is, but I get, I how would you kniw this since you haven’t even played these barb skills that you’re lecturing me on.
Not only buff those 2 weapons, but put WT on Raeker’s set as a damaging ability. That would be really fun.
Narrow effective range require one to gather aggro in a close density. Are you sure you played HotA? This means you have to pull monsters together as they don’t topple up for you to arrive and kill them. For sustaining HotA without any breaks for a longer time, your attack has to hit fewer targets, but contradictively you actually want to hit more targets to deal more damage. It’s not hard to guess that you’ll reach a critical value to swirl into drying up the resources or finally get to use a buff, generator else a resource battery.
As a result, for keeping HotA rolling, I have to use other skills in conjunction so I would have a rhythm and choose to interact with the combat depending on the information I have read from the field. This is decision making aspect of the game. I suggest that a sole Weapon Throw build doesn’t have that, because it has high sustain and high effective range to begin with. So far, you have never said anything on the contrary either. Barbarian class is very resilient and mobile as well.
That requirement in itself is some sort of dedication for the build. Gavel of Judgment only returns Fury if it hits 3 or fewer enemies. However, for the damage efficiency you actually want to hit more targets all at once. Eventually your Fury dries up so you have to shift gear for interaction; which is where you use a generator or Warcry.
Boulder Toss exhausts the resources, empties it for a whole drain. Now, that’s a demanding resource sink. Raekor Set chose Ancient Spear as its spender precisely. What’s wrong with the term?
You still have to find density first or at least bring multiple targets closer so you can hit them with the hammer. I can hold down M1 any time I want without being reliant on other skills or positioning.
At its highest damage skill rune it deals 400% weapon damage and can shoot a screen away still. Just Ricochet skillrune just has absurd range to show for and deals more damage to multiple targets overall; 275%*2 targets = 550% weapon damage in total and it has 200% attack speed. The basic mathematics of it tells me that it’s pretty good when you consider Area Damage procs also exist in the game.
HotA at its highest damage efficiency skill rune hits 640% weapon damage per swing, no attack speed bonus on its own and has a way shorter effective range. Thus for the sake of chewing through a crowd it needs higher sustain of resources for a longer time. How many times you have to cast Charge in a spread out monster group? This is interaction on the combat and it’s the way it should be.
You’re comparing a generator with high effective range to a spender with short effective range. In terms of balance their damage output shouldn’t be comparable at the first place. For playing HotA properly you need crowd control or some kiting, which consist of a slow windup for the combat flow.
Wiser than asking for 2000% passive damage multiplier on a legendary item at least.
Are you guys willingly ignorant that developers favor the builds that require interaction and effort, or am I missing some details to convey it properly? Holding down m1 and giving a decision to choose different inputs, are NOT the same thing. I’m explaining details and technicality, you’re giving me a lecture about your pasts and how many hours you have wasted on the game.
No, even if you ignore the effective range, spenders and generators are not similar, nor any comparable. You have no idea what are you talking about. If it turns out to require less effort compared to other builds clearing the similar content, it could undermine another build.
I asked you a really simple question; what sort of elements do the traditional Weapon Throw build has to manage besides holding down m1? Is it cooldown, mobility, windup, uptime? What is it? Does it diverse from another build by choice of skill or combat flow at all? You demand half the interaction and similar result, this doesn’t fly. How can I explain it more clearly?
I’d like to see Stalgard’s Decimator do something for a barb’s weapon throw skill, like add a pierce or bounce effect and possibly increase it damage by like 500% or whatever. Not too high as it would not likely be wielded so the damage adjustment is mostly meaningless.