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I am 100% sure the “DEVS” did not even notice that the 150 clears were using Ivory Tower

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If they stop trying to balance for non season this game would be so much better. Or cap paragon at 3.5-4k.

It’s silly to even say well this guy with 10k paragon can clear a 150 so they need a nerf… when 99% of the player base has probably never even hit 4k in the first place.

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honestly I don’t care if paragon 12k can clear a 150 solo. 12k paragon is many many multiples of 5k which they aim to balance for

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Ivory Tower build needs serious paragons to take the pounding at high GRs.

I think the devs have other things to worry about considering 10k paragon players are so rare.

They fixed the problem with sader RGK and that should be enough.

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I think you are over worrying. 6 players clear 150? May i ask you how many are pushing crusaders solo across 4 servers? It is one of META classes.

I agree IT is very strong, has 15x solo capacity, hence fuel incentives for high paragon to push 150 record. SoF will be nerfed, you wont clear 150 as easy, hence reducing pushing incentives GREATLY = lower tiers as a result. No one will be satisfied with a 149 anymore if you get what i mean. Higher tiers on record is heavily tied to that build capacity but also tied to amount of players fishing for those tiers.

As you agreed in other post, observe next era result first. Its easier to request nerf then buff. If its not handled properly, can lead to killing a build.

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What is kill time now in 150 on perfect boss with perfect gear @5K Paragons? Should be less then 3 mins right?

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I think it would be fair for Crusader to be universal RG killer and Impale to be faster on single target boss. Like that there would be place for both of them in 4 man groups. For that to happen, DH does need additional buff to HPS.

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They should have removed the 2 piece bonus on AoV from Fires of Heaven and made it Fist of the Heavens and left Shield of Fury alone and made the bracers a straight up buff instead of qualified buff. Shield of Fury would still have super high damage potential just take longer without the 6x modifier but shield could stack indefinitely or to something very high, like 100.

I don’t agree. Sure, less players will push, but that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be balanced around. Like, should I be satisfied that I am rank one with the pig sticker build just because nobody bothered playing the ivory tower build ?

Nerfing Ivory tower somehow is a good step into making Shotgun a balanced build.
I still think AoV Shotgun as a whole is slightly overtuned even on the ptr.

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Agree bro. I am not objecting to nerf balancings, only take it conservatively. Frankly speaking if any of us staffed in the dev team, 100% go for it. But we are dealing with noob d3 devs that possibly dont play the game. Its ok to nerf, but what if over nerf? They seems having no idea what are the appropriate numbers.

The recent new multiple sets killed my confidence towards them.

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Oh, I see. That’s a fair point. But at the same time, if nobody says anything, do you think they would notice why this build is stronger than that build, and this build should be nerfed and not both builds at the same time ? It’s a risky move.
Well, feedback doesn’t seem to be really taken into account anyway.

If any dev (or anybody really) who has 10mins and wants to see how the pig sticker build performs on the ptr with 8k paragon, you can see it there : https://www.twitch.tv/videos/635842158

3 Likes

Thank you for the table Fangskin.

I have enjoyed playing Ivory Tower since even before AoV. I was sad watching interesting items like Shield of Fury get nerfed because they overtuned the AoV 2pc bonus. I even remember clearing GR130 without Shield of Fury when the removal of the infinite stacking announcement was made.

The thing about Ivory Tower and its highest clears is that it’s very fishy and there is so much variance between maps and mob types. ICD tuning on Ivory Tower might address some of the lameness felt when you encounter slow attacking enemies.

Would Ivory Tower be satisfying? Not so sure. If they adjust that ICD value, they have to be super careful about it – because what you have suggested (0.4) is severe. Like going from 5 blocks/sec to 2.5 blocks/sec + the removal of additive damage. That’s more than a 5GRs.

Fang, pick a better number please.

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It is stronger due to better progression timing / survival after stutter nerf. Its down side is RG time is slower, which I think should be the focus on nerfing IT build performance. In my opinion, strong progression builds should have slower rg kill time for balance purposes, not just for IT HF but all strong progression builds, Spirit barrage / star pact etc.

Maybe its quite difficult for the current team, but in my opinion if they are capable, reducing the pro rate on RG skills to a degree that you need very good map / smooth execution to gain enough lead (RG) time. Especially Orlash type of proc efficiency.

OR alternatively, lock IT to only proc the main beam, not the extra 2 granted by fate. Maybe too big of a nerf, what are the damage loss Fangskin? I dont have the numbers of spreadsheet anymore.

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IT procing only 1 beam would be a serious nerf, maybe a bit too much. Basically at least 80% of the damage comes from IT so you’d be doing hardly half of what it’s doing currently and you lose toughness because of less holy cause procs.

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Suspect thats the case.

Maybe something like Heavenly Strength mechanic, IT proc beams aren’t doing 100% of ALL fury damage but at a penalty %.

Block release forward a Fires of Heaven at 75% damage etc.

EDIT:

60-70% ish maybe…

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I think that would be the best solution. I would have said 50% damage but maybe that’s too harsh… 75% is definitely in the “still op” range.

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At that point I’d rather see a new legendary item that gives 75% atk speed to fires of heaven, and lower the 6p set by 75%.

Also, what you’re proposing would be an insane buff to the bosskiller. At the moment it does 600% damage (×7), and plays with furnace. Next patch, it does the same thing but with ×3. With what you say, they lose furnace, but get 75% atk speed (way better than furnace because it increases stricken stacks), and the total multiplier would be ×2×2.5 or ×5. So it would hardly be a nerf to the current crusader boss killer build (which is definitely over powered), and make the solo build over the top most likely. Being able to play easily 2-H in solo because you’ll have so much atk speed you don’t even need to worry about zodiac procs ? Yes please.

It would be fine to introduce a weapon that buffs heaven’s fury attack speed if they nerf the 6p, so that the current “pig sticker” build can move away from that dagger and towards a more optimal/logical weapon instead (the sky splitter axe comes to mind, as well as tyrael’s sword). Something as tame as 40% atk speed / 30% RCR to HF would go a long way, without making the build too broken. Again, assuming the 6p is nerfed by the same amount.

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Buff invoker make it the new Rift guardian killer. Easy fix make 6p bonus apply to all thorns skills. Stop nerfing stuff. Make it all better instead.

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Good thinking.

Maybe not the 6pc, it will nerf Fist of Heaven build as well. nerf 2pc or legendaries better.

If legendaries:

  • Shield of Fury: No longer buffs damage, Increase the attack speed of Fires of Heaven by x %. EDIT: x% att spd per stack up to 10 stacks??

  • Eberli Charo: Increase the damage of Heaven’s Fury by x%. Reduce the cooldown of Heaven’s Fury by 50%.

Makes us choose att spd or damage. x% depends what is ideal.

RGK may seem OP with both shields but it is another 150% damage nerf, can be controlled with x% numbers. EDIT: Furnace also belong here for trading.

Atm weapon + 4x7+ hasteful gives furnace (29f) 8 hit bp (30f) (during holy 4 secs) and fate (26f) 9 hit bp (26f). 10 hit BP is 24f. I cant remember whether there are more hits bp (11+). In my memory, 23f vs 21f 1hand HF rgk (2.4075/2.6263) kill time wasnt that big, so the difference might be just increased bp damage (not #hit) + faster stricken.

OR simply x% nerf to 2pc bonus. We have x9 multiplier on hand.

2 Likes