2.6.9 Crusader Feedback

Hello developers,

  • 2.6.9 PTR Crusader Change
  • Shield of Fury: 30% Increment Stacks are reduced from 20 to 10.
  • Solo-play: This change reduced -3.5 tier in solo pushing. The mid-tier was not affected from this change. Only pushing-tier was affected.
  • Groups: This change almost doubled the duration to kill RG (e.g. 2 mins -> 3:50 mins).

This is the summary of my PTR experience. First of all, I was satisfied with the nerf. However, I am still worried about the potential of Ivory Tower based build. I suggest you to nerf Ivory Tower as well to prevent 150 clear in solo.

There are two AoV variants. One is Pig Sticker, the other is Ivory Tower. After this nerf, the potential of Pig Sticker will be limited to 144-145, which signals a good balance.

However, the Shield of Fury nerf won’t be enough to limit the potential of Ivory Tower. I forecast that Ivory Tower will make 150 tier even after this nerf because Ivory Tower has almost 2x damage potential than Pig Sticker.

There are 6 players who finished 150 tier within 13 mins (four China, two EU), 15 players who made 150 tier in the current non-season Crusader leaderboard. All of them utilized Ivory Tower. This suggests that the max potential of Ivory Tower is around 152 and some may reach 150 solo even after nerf.

Because the balance of Pig Sticker is completely fine, the only thing to be adjusted is Ivory Tower. Instead of adjusting AoV set itself, please double-check the performance of Ivory Tower.

Thank you! I wish you be safe and happy during this time.

6 Likes

I agree. I think the current balance of Pig Sticker is good after the SoF nerf. I wish Ivory Tower be adjusted. Do you have any idea how Ivory Tower can be adjusted?

1 Like

I am 100% sure the “DEVS” did not even notice that the 150 clears were using Ivory Tower

4 Likes

As the leaderboard shows, Ivory Tower has 152+ tier potential. Further adjustmemt is needed for Ivory Tower.

Rank Tier Type Duration Paragon Server
1 150 Ivory Tower 12:25 9206 EU
2 150 Ivory Tower 12:38 11817 EU
3 150 Ivory Tower 14:09 11302 Asia
4 150 Ivory Tower 14:16 10004 EU
5 150 Ivory Tower 14:18 11016 Asia
6 150 Ivory Tower 14:50 10432 US
7 150 Ivory Tower 14:51 12284 Asia
8 148 Ivory Tower 13:03 8561 EU
9 148 Ivory Tower 13:56 10268 EU
10 148 Pig Sticker 14:18 8674 US
11 148 Pig Sticker 14:34 9200 EU
12 148 Ivory Tower 14:39 9429 US
13 147 Pig Sticker 12:29 10081 US
14 147 Pig Sticker 13:54 9323 Asia
15 147 Ivory Tower 13:57 9439 EU

As far as I know, Ivory Tower has 0.2 ICD. The dev team can extend ICD to 0.4. Plus, the dev team can delete additive procs between ICDs. Further experiment/trial may be needed here.

2 Likes

If they stop trying to balance for non season this game would be so much better. Or cap paragon at 3.5-4k.

It’s silly to even say well this guy with 10k paragon can clear a 150 so they need a nerf… when 99% of the player base has probably never even hit 4k in the first place.

1 Like

Even for the players below 3.5-4k, Ivory Shotgun is better performing than other builds.

If nerfing is inevitable, we should try to minimize the disadvantage. Nerfing Ivory Tower is much better option than nerfing AoV set for group/solo play.

2 Likes

honestly I don’t care if paragon 12k can clear a 150 solo. 12k paragon is many many multiples of 5k which they aim to balance for

2 Likes

The balancing criteria is based on both 5k avg and max potential. The devs really want to limit the potential of builds to complete 150 tier.

If some nerf is inevitable, the devs should find a way to minimize the penalty the ordinary players might experience.

Lets suppose Shield of Fury nerf is confirmed and the devs will nerf some other component of AoV build. There will be two options.

  • AoV set Nerf: All AoV build will be nerfed including Pig Sticker, Ivory Tower, 4P RGK, etc.
  • Ivory Nerf: Only Ivory Tower will be nerfed.

The situation is obvious that Ivory Tower AoV will complete 150 tier after SoF nerf because its potential is 152+, not 150.

After Shield of Fury nerf, however, Pig Sticker and RGK are no more OP. The max potential of Pig Sticker in solo will be 145-6, which is equal to Rend Barb. In groups, the duration to kill RG will be doubled (e.g., if you needed 2 mins, now it will take 3:50 mins). Pig Sticker/RGK is well-balanced, and do NOT need nerfs anymore.

1 Like

Ivory Tower build needs serious paragons to take the pounding at high GRs.

I think the devs have other things to worry about considering 10k paragon players are so rare.

They fixed the problem with sader RGK and that should be enough.

5 Likes

Yes, after SoF nerf, the balance of RGK and Pig Sticker should be good. But Ivory Tower won’t.

The balancing has been based on both 5k and 10k. If 10k complete 150 again with Ivory Tower, it will be too late and raise noises.

1 Like

Do you mean, if ICD is extended, the frequency to reflect Fires of Heaven will be reduced? I don’t get how proc and ICD work together.

1 Like

I think you are over worrying. 6 players clear 150? May i ask you how many are pushing crusaders solo across 4 servers? It is one of META classes.

I agree IT is very strong, has 15x solo capacity, hence fuel incentives for high paragon to push 150 record. SoF will be nerfed, you wont clear 150 as easy, hence reducing pushing incentives GREATLY = lower tiers as a result. No one will be satisfied with a 149 anymore if you get what i mean. Higher tiers on record is heavily tied to that build capacity but also tied to amount of players fishing for those tiers.

As you agreed in other post, observe next era result first. Its easier to request nerf then buff. If its not handled properly, can lead to killing a build.

1 Like

Correction: There are 15 players who cleared 150 this era (NA/Asia/EU/China). Rank 1 cleared 150 in 10:21 (China Server). They are all Ivory Tower based.

SoF nerf is only -3.5 tier. 150 is still viable for those 15 players. This will provide them enough incentives to push 150.

I did. However, as I analyze more and more, it is getting more obvious that Ivory Tower needs some adjustment. If the situation is obvious, there is no reason to wait another 3-4 months.

I didn’t ask the devs to kill Ivory Tower. I asked “proper adjustment.” The devs can decide the proper amount of adjustment. I only give them some clue - ICD, Proc, etc.

2 Likes

What is kill time now in 150 on perfect boss with perfect gear @5K Paragons? Should be less then 3 mins right?

1 Like

On PTR, it takes 3-4 mins for the regular boss. I don’t know the average duration on PTR server yet.

For balance, Impale HPS needs more buff to compete with the nerfed Crusader.

1 Like

I think it would be fair for Crusader to be universal RG killer and Impale to be faster on single target boss. Like that there would be place for both of them in 4 man groups. For that to happen, DH does need additional buff to HPS.

4 Likes

This means there is 0.2 ICD, but all the procs happened between ICD are additively stacked. Therefore, there are two issues: ICD & Proc. To adjust Ivory Tower, the devs may (1) delete the additive stacks between ICDs and (2) extend the ICD altogether.

I agree with that. To make your proposal to happen, DH Impale should be buffed to deal more single target damage than Shotgun.

4 Likes

They should have removed the 2 piece bonus on AoV from Fires of Heaven and made it Fist of the Heavens and left Shield of Fury alone and made the bracers a straight up buff instead of qualified buff. Shield of Fury would still have super high damage potential just take longer without the 6x modifier but shield could stack indefinitely or to something very high, like 100.

I agree, but it is also too fundamental at this moment. After SoF nerf, the balance of RGK/Pig Sticker will be fine. Thus, only Ivory Tower is needed to be adjusted.

How much to be adjusted depends on the devs team if they decide something.

1 Like

Then, the main issue here is not ICD itself. It will be the scaled damage output which adds the amount of procs that occured between ICDs. The scaled damage output can be removed or reduced to mitigate the power of Ivory Tower.

2 Likes