Why is the amazon so ungodly ugly?

General Discussion
902

You’re making a whole lot of assumptions about how much effort it takes to post here that doing it would qualify as “caring”.

But you’re also missing the point.

I don’t care about the models.

I do care about my opinion about the models.

So, selfishly, I am perfectly willing to make my stance and opinion known, even if my horse in the race is “TBH I don’t care”, on the basis that this is a free, open discussion forum and that discussion is its intended purpose, which means, gasp, you will have to talk with people who have different opinions.

903

No, he is saying that the viewpoints are equal.

Like models
Don’t like models
Don’t care about models
HATE models will not buy

All are valid personal options about the models. Being discussed in a thread about the models.

904

I did chuckle at how fast that refund link was provided.

I believe my enjoyment and relevant posts of this particular thread will improve if I use the ignore function.

Yes, Amazon looks like a 55 year old using his daughter’s phone, and can’t turn off the snapchat filter.

905

Only 6.4% disliked the models so much they would not buy.

69.7% either liked the models or did not care about them.

Which do you think Blizzard will care about the most?

(Of course this all is kind of moot as the sample selection size and self selection bias alone skews things and that is not a randomly selected large sample)

906

The forums see at least one person per day make a grand, screaming post about either demanding a refund, or closing their accounts.

Keeping the link handy is probably a requirement by now.

Also, oddly, those people never seem to actually fill the refund form or account closing form, since they then keep posting here.

It’s almost like people use “I will refund!” as a desperate attempt to have their voice heard. When they notice it failed, they deflate and don’t follow through.

907

You’re using a poll from reddit not the actual overwhelming feedback from the pre-purchased forum?

…

908

Forum feedback is a meaningless metric. Less than 1% of the people who preordered the game come here.

Likely, less than 0.1%.

909

So the models are trash(only 13% liked them what a success), but since not enough people are willing to refund because of that, you consider this to be an argument pro-new models?
Explain this logic please, we’re here making a remastered graphics for diablo 2, and we’re sticking with ugly option that only 13% liked, cause people would eat it anyway?
Is that a goal of someone who truly cares about the game? Or of someone who desperately wants to shove those questionable models in, for “unknown” reason?

910

Then why do you post here?

911

Boredom. Waiting for news. Lack of stimulation despite having a game open on one screen and a video on my phone.

912

The same handful of people saying the same things supported by the same fleet of “like” accounts does not hold much weight, no. A good chunk of the “like” accounts joined only to like posts in this thread and have no actual posts of their own. ANY Bnet account, even without a game license, can like posts. Hence it does not mean much.

Neither does the reddit survey though. However, I was told to look on reddit for proof of this overwhelming.

Almost like the internet made of anonymous and easily manipulated things is not to be trusted for making major decisions.

913

It will be interesting to see how many people actually play Amazon when the game comes out and compare those numbers to the “internet polls”.

914

I am fairly confident, to the point I would wager money on this, that the model will have very little impact on whether people play an Amazon or not.

Reasons:

  1. A vast majority of pro and hardcore players are going to be playing Sorceress at launch, and then make a Paladin. The data is already skewed because this is a solved game with a clear path to optimal play and victory.
  2. A lot of people are turned off by throwing weapon and arrow management, even if it is ultimately not that big a deal.
  3. Fan-favorites are already pretty much set in stone for casual players. Necromancer and Druid are always gonna be hard favorites.

So it’s like… how are you even going to measure this? How could you measure this?

915

you’re underestimating the popularity of javazon. Especially on hardcore - one of the easiest to play \ hardest to rip and at the same time one of the strongest pvm builds.

916

Oh I think you misconstrued my meaning.

My purpose isn’t to know, my point is that no one ever will.

Which is why reddit polls are about as reliable as a strawpoll on a Fortnite stream.

Which didn’t stop it from being posted as a counterpoint and simultaneously discredited. Any debate instructor would be amused at that slight of mind.

Anyway you’ve already said you’re bored and I don’t want to derail the thread. Have a good one.

917

Riiiight…
So anyway:

30.3% didn’t like the models vs 13.2% who liked them
86.8% didn’t like the models or didn’t care vs 13.2% who actually thought that the models are good

918

Hello forum people. Once again as I reminded some of you in the past way up in the thread, please try to keep your comments civil. I am directing this at no one in particular.

Please keep it game-related and try to avoid politics which will only inflame the issue along unnecessary lines.

It’s likely that this thread is only still here because of the blue post and that it’s blue-tracked. This thread has the only CM response here I’ve seen on the issue which probably means it’s been used by CMs to show a response has been made.

Given they’ve deleted so many threads like it (a claim made by several posters), this thread might have been deleted a long time ago were it not for the reasons above.

Also, anyone claiming any kind of statistical high ground with statistically insignificant numbers from various sources doesn’t understand formal statistics.

MrLlama’s poll of ~2300 people showed that 54% did not like the face. Only 33% liked the face:

Does that mean anything? Not really, his viewers don’t like the face. Does a poll on Le Reddit mean anything? Not really, it just means those particular people seeing that particular poll voted in that way.

In other words, to make a valid statistical inference about the overall D2R player population, you must follow a formal survey methodology. This was not done in any survey to date.

So I’m not jumping on anyone in particular here - but what I am saying is that people that usually have rational well-reasoned comments are not doing so in this thread.

I would also caution people about continuing to mention alt accounts - it just gives others an idea they might not have had before :slight_smile:

In my mind after catching up with all of this, this is the gist of the debate, and please don’t report me for stating the obvious.

This seems to be why the changes were made and this statement is the one that any rational company’s PR dept would have made in conjunction with the changes:

"In order to better represent today’s growing and diverse international playerbase, we’ve made some changes to D2R’s character models. We feel these changes outweigh the need for authenticity to the original D2 models and we hope our players understand our desire for more inclusivity. "

So that’s one side of the argument.

This is the other side of the argument:

“The game is no longer authentic. The speaking dialogue does not match up with the character’s looks anymore. Doing this on a remaster makes no sense when other games offer appearance options. The game is gender-locked and skin-locked such that players have no options when there should be options - why is this. The Amazon look and feel is off. The character I played for decades is now gone. All this sort of thing which are actually very reasonable arguments.”

So I will tell you guys this - a 1000ml glass filled with 500ml water can be both half full and half empty.

Both sides can be right at the same time. I know this is hard for some of you to see but it’s true that more people should feel comfortable playing D2 hence more diversity can be a good thing for new players.

And it’s also true that it’s an absolute shock to the system to see the original D2 characters changed. As “art”, I am completely against changing D2 characters for reasons outside of “art” and “lore”. Should we change the Mona Lisa in the Louvre to have a mustache to make some kind of statement. Of course not. Should we censor artists if they want to do things in a certain way and force them to use “inclusive” notions? Of course not, because this is when we stray into authoritarian regimes, all of which don’t end well historically. So I personally think changes to characters for reasons that aren’t artistic is therefore agenda-driven which is therefore a dangerous precedent. If this was a new game, fine, no problems, but it’s not. It’s an icon.

So I see both sides and they can both be true. Perhaps some of you might want to tone it down a notch though.

919

It’s a well known fact that 93.57% of all statistics are made up. It’s true, I saw it on the internet!

[laughs in common sense]

920

Exactly, which is why I did say that above. Obviously reddit polls, streamer polls, etc. are not going to be particularly statistically useful.

Again

The only data that is probably close to a decent statistical sample is the data collected by the pros on the Blizzard User Research team. They would have put together the end of Alpha survey as well as the one that was emailed to a random? selection of Blizzard bnet accounts.

921

I really like they’re keeping old voice files. Makes it a much more authentic experience.

Adding 25 years give or take to the amazon really takes that authenticity and smacks the player in the face with it.

I can’t with a straight face listen to this amazon, old like me, using the words
“Good riddance, freak”
When dispatching the summoner.

What person my age-ish is going to use sassy language like that, in that tone?

The new amazon is the most talked about thing for this remaster, and I definitely think the artists should have had more forethought.

I’m still going to buy 3+ copies though, so long as gameplay isn’t altered drastically.