Sadly some will never take up that offer, because they just want things like /players 8 without putting in the actual effort to group up with others.
They will just keep pushing for it because what they really want is a glorified Barbie simulator where they can show off their lootz to their friends without the multiplayer experience. Jumping right to the “endgame”, as it were. Just like WoW level tokens.
ok cool, and this will make a instant loot distribution system? no of course not. This isn’t a solution it is a workaround that doesn’t affect latencies, scripts, controllers and so many other things the optional system does.
Yes, however, when they charge the price of what is normally a full game, we expect them to deliver a product that is better than the original. They’ve improved graphics, destroyed the chat lobby, added no relevant game search function where we now have to resort to d2jsp to find chaos and baal runs.
It was a typical activision move, do as little as possible and milk the consumer. No one got their money’s worth.
So I can understand why people ask for change, the game doesn’t match the price tag.
lemme put it this way and give you an example from my launch experience. I didn’t know for sure i can play on launch until the day of. With only about an hour before launch; I managed to find a full party of different classes that were all on the same page with what loot to share and what loot would be ffa. All strangers and we finished hell baal that night together. If that’s possible, surely other people can find 7 like minded players to play with.
looks around for who is arguing that (doesn’t find any)
yes it is the good fight in this game
no just a optional equal playing field while keeping everything the same (loot tables,drops, tradeable etc)
[UnrivaledPiercer] wrote: I normally don’t chime in on things like this, but I figured since this forum is new I’ll take a shot on a hot topic.
The thing I see a lot of people misunderstand is the difference between ‘personal loot’ and ‘allocated loot’ compared to ‘public loot’ in Diablo 3’s case. Currently we have public loot, as it has been for years. Diablo 3 has ‘personal loot’ where items drop for each player only. If an enemy in Diablo 3 drops loot, the loot gets multiplied per player. Example: Normal boss drops 3 items with 1 player in the game, but would then drop 9 items if 3 players were in the game with 3 items going to each person privately. That is what ‘personal loot’ is, items are multiplied by the player count so each person gets an entirely personal loot experience. With Diablo 3’s lack of trading, it makes sense.
Now on the topic of ‘allocated loot’ using the same example. If Diablo 2 had allocated loot if a normal boss dropped 3 items with 1 player in the game, that person could pick up all 3 items. However if a normal boss dropped 3 items with 3 players in the game, only 1 item would drop for each player. If a fourth to eighth player were in the game, players 4 through 8 would see zero items drop. Now granted the chosen players would be randomized, or round robin to make this work. The end result is you see a lot less items drop, but the total drops remain the same as they are now with public loot.
Because of the economy driven design of Diablo 2, a ‘personal loot’ system as described above using Diablo 3 as an example would destroy the economy very quickly. In my above example, EIGHT TIMES more items would be dropping in 8 player games, 4 times more items in 4 player games and so on. It would accelerate the economy so quickly that value would be nothing after mere days. I fully understand the “want” for personal loot, but most people don’t seem to think about the game as a whole.
Allocated loot would in theory work. However it too has its flaws with how it works. If allocated loot was an option, do you set it to round robin, random, or something else? Do you let the game creator decide and give multiple options within allocated loot? Where does that choice stop? It could in theory work, but would need some adjustment on how the loot chooses the player to drop for.
Another small thing to think about with allocated loot is do you let all players see all loot but only pick up the items allocated to them? Do you put all items on a global timer so they become free for all after a certain time? If you don’t let all players see items, what happens if player 1 doesn’t need an item, but player 2 does. Then if the item player 2 needs, drops for player 1, but player 1 doesn’t say it dropped player 2 would never know and still need it even though it dropped and was skipped by player 1. If items are always visible, then player 2 could tell player 1 to pick it up to re-drop it for player 2, but that becomes a hassle.
Leaving it as an option at game creation between personal loot or public loot, creates the same problem as stated above. You still end up with more items in the market than normal. If only 20% of the games used personal loot, that’s 20% more items added to the global item pool still. It would need to be either all or nothing because of that.
This is why I am sadly against the idea of public loot, or allocated loot. Allocated loot IS the correct way to handle it if they were to go that route, but just creates other problems. Leaving everything public has its issues too, but carries less overall issues with it in the long run. You want an item that someone else doesn’t? Pick it up. Yes it does create a situation of people being loot ninjas in public games, but that’s part of the experience. You don’t go into [Baal] run games expecting items, you go into them expecting exp, with getting items as a bonus. If you want to MF in large games, you tend to do it with groups of friends who are already sharing items anyway. If you want to MF without people stealing your items you MF in private games. Personal loot as a concept already exists, you just make a game with a password and then all of that loot is personal. Yeah I know that’s not what people want to hear but that’s the reality of how it works and how it in my opinion should work in this game.
I am definitely open for conversation on the topic, it’s not a open and closed book in that regard. I just feel like it doesn’t get the full thought from people who seem to campaign for the idea of personal loot. Allocated loot would work, personal loot would not. Maybe you have a different idea of how something should work? It’s all up in the air at this point.
Me: Thought this was a good take.
Lord, that is a very well thought out response. Thank you for sharing that here.
yes this is a older post. It was taken into consideration with so many others when trying to figure out a A-Z answer on what and how to implement a optional system
unrivaled piercer wrote that
yes, i was unclear. I meant to thank him for sharing it. I understand it’s another person’s words. Thank you.
Yeah man, thought that was clear.
it was we cleared it up
My biggest gripe with this game is how hard it is to find the specific type of game you want to enter. There is no search function and no filter function.
I’ve been saying this all along in regard to Ploot. And yeah, I do think the consideration should be made for an alternative loot solution… just not “Ploot” as it’s been tossed around in regard to D3.
I’m not even a firm believer in “game economy” as I don’t even participate in that aspect- I just personally enjoy the game for what it is, rather than what it isn’t.
Things like stacking pgems and runes, inventory space, etc I’m all for because that’s the definition of a QoL improvement. But, all of this ploot, nerfing teleport so it has a cooldown etc seems like a lot of barking from a tiny, casual dog to me. It works if you work it, I didn’t have a problem with the loot system back then and I don’t now, its part of the D2 experience and there is 0 reason to change that. I bought this game to play Diablo 2 in all its glory and prickly thorns - not D3 with a D2 skin on top of it. I really can’t understand why someone would want to change the core experience of the greatest arpg of all time but that’s me. On the subject I’ve said multiple times, if I could get to top tier when I was 12 year old we are all grown men I kinda think we can figure it out. Keep the experience pure and unadulterated the entire point is that D2 is a shiny gem that sits apart from other things like it - other games strive to come up to its level it doesn’t need to drop to theirs.
Fixing bugs that should have been fixed 20 years ago and implementing some QoL doesn’t “fundamentally change the game”.
Personal loot doesn’t break the game, it fixes it. You want to talk logical fallacies and strawman arguments? How about the fact that the “make friends and only play with them” argument IS a strawman argument as it’s an entirely different situation than the one that has the problem? You’re not fixing the problem, you’re avoiding it. The problem still exists. A lot of players don’t bother with public games because of this. They know they will never get any loot. It kind of defeats the purpose of multiplayer when you avoid playing multiplayer because the loot system is inherently awful and caters to people using PickIt.
By MFers I assume you mean people joining games and just going off on their own to kill some bosses and then leaving…It’s annoying but there really isn’t any good way to deal with it…except for, wait for it…personal loot.
Here’s the reality: The fundamentals of Hack-n-Slash RPGS are “Kill things → Get Loot → Power up → Kill more things → Get more loot → …” If anything, personal loot brings the game more in line with those fundamentals than it already is. However, so would loot rolling…or literally any system that gives people an equal chance to get the items without standing literally on top of the boss spamming the button. The current loot system is a flawed design…it deters people from playing together rather than encouraging them to.
TL;DR: “It fundamentally changes the game” is not a valid argument. None of the things I’ve seen anyone is say about PLoot are actual arguments against PLoot…not a single one of them.
As for PvP ganking, yeah, it’s always been there, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t flawed design. The argument that a flawed design should be left alone just because it already existed is hilariously dumb. It’s ridiculous that we live in a society that is so big on “consent” but thinks the concept of requiring dual consent to a PvP situation is somehow absurd.
Reading your other posts about “The core game for me…” What you’re really arguing is your opinion about what you want for the game for yourself and not what’s good for the game as a whole.
Reality check: None of the changes people are proposing would stop you from experiencing the things you’re saying you want.
PS: Stop using the word fundamental, you clearly don’t understand what it means. None of the things you are claiming are “Fundamental” are even remotely so.
For everyone else whose complaining about the TCP/IP direct connection function…It allows for piracy of the game. You’d be hard pressed to find a game made in the past 10 or so years that actually has this feature.
BTW: PLoot is not the only solution. There are other loot possibilities that would fix the problems the game has.
It honestly has more to do with forum gold and RMT for no changes… You could nerf hell drops across the board add a scaling end game so earning bis items is actually earned not opening chests in full games… or doing 1000000 runs and finally getting lucky! the no change crowd is the rmt crowd… Personal Loot with a hard challenging end games hurts the pocket book and 20 years of effort… If you follow logic
Oh man… it’s maybe 5 or 6 hours you are here trying to prove your argument… What a insistent guy! I really admire you!
If you enjoy game exactly it is… What some updates will change on your game? Nothing… just don’t use /players command. I don’t see the point, so you isn’t trying to keep your game the way they are, you are trying to keep trades exactly how they are today, so you supports D2jsp! Cause if I got more loot playing solo, what it will change on your game? NOTHING… The only change I can see is that I don’t go search for items on trade third-part sites or forums. That’s the point!
If you’re trying to get more loot solo, then why aren’t you playing offline? That’s what it was meant for. Still don’t understand why you’re trying to convince everyone /players X needs to be made Online.
That’s the point.
(PS, I think you mean “persistent” not “insistent”)
I’ve liked many of your posts on this forum Relden you’re an intelligent and cogent human don’t feed the trolls.