What is balance?

The developers are adjusting many skills for 2.4, i’m not going to rate whether they are in a better place now or not.

I keep thinking how they are choosing the numbers for their changes. Is there a maximum a build should be able to do? Is the minimum like being able to play through once? Should it be possible to solo a 3 player game or an 8 player game?

We have a lot of threads where people complain about specific builds being too strong or too weak. Not many are talking about the builds that are in a great spot. That’s why i want to know: What builds are perfectly balanced in your eyes and why?

Is it enough that some builds are best in niche areas in the game but useless in the rest? Is it enough if a build is pvp only or vice versa? What are your thoughts? What’s a good guideline for future balance changes? Blizzard seems to be listening to the community and youtubers, but do we know what’s best? What is the philosophy behind our balance suggestions?

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Everything was perfect from 2004 to 2014… DOnt know what happened to this game after that really. Only came back 2 years ago just to see what was happening because this

WELL IT USED TO BE THE BEST MOST BALANCED PVP GAME IN EXISTENCE. IT TOOK ITEMS AND SKILL TO PVP IN THIS GAME. ALL THAT GONE NOW SINCE PEOPLE WANT TO TWEAK THE GAME.

Everyone seems to think they are entitled to put there little special twist on the game and ruin it for everyone.

remember that blizz asked us what we think about changes so what you see now is a result of that

Depends on how you see D2R. What kind of game should it be?

As a loot hunter and gambling game, you want to press the lever as often as possible
As a coop arpg you would want more challeging content where you need to fight together and killing mobs takes longer.

Right now D2R is same as D2 LoD a loot hunter and gambling game. Low odds of good drops combined with fast clearing of areas.

So in my opinion, the “OP builds” aren’t that far off. I don’t need epic long fights for grinding gear/xp in D2R. So either about 2 min full clear CS runs in p8 and below 1 min seal popping CS p8 are the benchmarks for me to be fine.

Niche characters that can’t do that are fine for me, but should have some other special use that aoe classes can’t do as good like ubers. I think we could use more areas that benefit melee classes over caster.

that’s pvm for me.

PvP is a lot different. Balance in PvP has a lot to do with paper stone scissors and the balance between mobility, dmg (range, aoe, single target), defense. I don’t like absorb because nobody should be fully immune to anybody else in PvP, that’s why it’s limited/banned in most GM situations. Also it’s different for 1v1 and tvt.

To balance PvP, you have to look at the current balance and adjust around the current A+ Tiers and why they are preferred. To much RNG hurts PvP balance, that’s why Smiter are preferred over Zeal paladins.

Red line for PvP balance, if every build can take about as many hits as it needs to kill his opponent, it’s kinda balanced.

devs goes with feedback…some players give good feedback and some poor feedback due to ignorance or tackle an issue incorrectly which should been address at the source problem

other problem players are those being too purist or asking nerf to old days skills(luckily these nerfs haven’t been done by devs as of yet)

what should be work on is QoL, some improvement on some drop rate(and i’am not talking about HR)…talking bout near impossible find rolls such as tri to quintuple perf roll(such as grand matron bow, perf magic orbs with 3 desired skill and +2 sorc skills or +3 to Tree…asn claws with perf +skills…baba helms…druids pelts…rare items with top mods)…lastly upgrading under performing skills(at least 75-90% of S Tier builds powers while also keeping it balanced for both pve and pvp)

Ehh if changes are going to be made, they need to do nerfs, not buffs. Games too easy as it is.

And frankly I couldn’t care less about PvP. It’s a niche community at best, and there are better PvP games.

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No, everything in D2 was not perfect during that time.

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YES EVERYTHING WAS PERFECT. I GUARANTEE YOU THAT THE POPULATION WAS AT LEAST 100X LARGER THAN IT IS NOW AND NOBODY COMPLAINED ABOUT BALANCE.

EVERYONE COMPLAINED ABOUT BOTS HACKS CHEATS DUPES AND CREDIT CARD WARRIORS!

k

PvP was never balanced. You’re looking through rose colored glasses. There is a reason the community had to make up PvP rules for sorb/stack, banning skills such as life tap and slow missles, and banning items like exile etc.

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What is balance?

What is?

What?

Hi! Great topic gerAUT.

Balancing the game around p1 or p8 is a big difference.

Here are characters which I feel are in a good place at p1 settings:

Classic (Non-LoD) Whirlwind Barb with legacy ww mechanics (whirlwind always attacks at max attacks per second, ignores weapon speed).

Bone necro (max CE use Bone Spear for first corpse)

Strafe Zon.

what, lol… most balanced pvp game???

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Don’t think the neckbeard has played any other games from the past 20 years.

Overall i think barb is almost perfect, especially with the war cry and throwing buffs in 2.4.

Frenzy is the perfect playtrhough build for me, you can’t really push through without stopping for some item farming on nightmare (gotta get at least some Black Knouts, or some exceptional unique weapons like Butchers Pupils from NM andy). The attack rating matters, the defense matters (having high defense helps a lot with mana burns btw!), benefits from str, dex and vita, lots of utility skills to master: taunt mages, battle cry or war cry melees, leap attack to dispatch revivers, leap to knock back stuff, berserk stone skins, make use of coop swap weapons (echoing weapons, life tap charges).

However I never really played an end game Frenzy. I imagine it’s very good, just there are more desirable builds there because those aren’t that good on a playthrough (berserk and whirlwind), which is kind of a problem with the barb, but not really since there is respec.