Multi spotted here…
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I feel like both sides of the discussion could use a step back and realistically think about the game.
Neither PVM nor PVP require that much of a skill in D2. It’s just a fact. But that’s ok - the game is not designed to be super challenging in, say, modern sense of the word.
In PVM you do not have bosses with complicated mechanics that require several party members to cooperate to win or TPK. If you build your character right, you clear content - simple as that.
The PVP is very forgiving as well - compared to true PVP-centric games - and it does not look good when people have inflated feeling of self-importance because they do PVP in D2. Like, yea, sure, fighting a player is more challenging than fighting Mephisto but it really is nothing to brag about. Your typical reaction speed, APM etc. are probably way below of what can be described as “passable” in a true PVP environment.
The economy is another aspect. Yea, PVP and PVM are in a symbiosis but it’s not like PVM need PVPers to get stuff done.
A typical good PVM build requires 3 Bers (one for Enigma, 2 for Infinity) and some other stuff that is WAY below of what PVPers pay for some of their GG items. Items, which, sometimes, are simply farmed from shop or gambled.
So yea, PVPers help with the economy but only in the sense that they expand a player base of people who may be interested in trading.
Situations when someone is the luckiest SOB in the game and finds a JMOD or a blue Javelin that sells for 40 Bers account for less than 1% of the trades.
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pvp in this game is a joke, play something that actually requires skill
He’s right, you know. If you wanted to flex your pvp skills and not your mom’s credit card in a game where pvp is basically rock, paper, scissors, you’d probably play starcraft, dota 2 or something along those lines. There’s a reason there aren’t any paid pvp events in this game (or a esport scene, lol), because it’s a joke.
And seeing FoHdins one tapping others just because they have the wrong gear just to brag afterwards makes me laugh. It’s weird how pvp fanatics in this game are so pathetic.
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the amount of noobs who comment on pvp in this game with authority is astounding.
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PvP is literally the only challenging aspect of the game
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let me guess : you never played pvp ? Like real PvP, not 2 pub game in your whole life.
No seriously. Because saying PvP in d2 is unbalanced and has a tons of flaw would be right. But forgiving ? Low apm? Low reaction speed needed? D2 PvP is all about fast lock your opponent while constantly dodging enemy attack as much as you can, and almost everyone is moving as fast as the game allows. Most build can kill each over in a really short time if a mistake is done. Reaction time is incredibly important…
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In my experience people truly gifted with the ability that can play PVP on competitive level gravitate towards titles that are much more rewarding than D2.
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How is that an argument or even an answer to what i just said? I never said D2 PvP was competitive like League of Legend (in example) would be btw. As i said before, it has a good number of flaws. But what you are saying is just flat out wrong. Reaction time, click accurency are keys in d2 PvP. I think most PvMers watching a high lvl duel in PvP would just not even understand half of what is going on
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The argument is that there is no reason to bloat one’s self-importance because of PVP in D2.
Because yeah, like I said, it is more challenging to defeat good player in D2 than an act boss but there is literally no reason to call others noobs or casuals when being a good PVPer in D2 is being a big fish in a VERY small pond.
People who dedicate their lifes and careers toward fighting other people in games and train themselves in those aspects gravitate towards titles that actually reward that kind of commitment.
And yes, reaction time and click accuracy are key in D2 PVP but the required ceiling of those things is much lower than in true competitive PVP environment. This is what I mean “forgiving” = you need reaction speed and accuracy but don’t overestimate the reaction speed and accuracy actually needed.
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imagine if you had to farm for your weapons and armor in counterstrike, now you got d2 pvp. And now u got people coming in from call of duty begging for awp to get splash damage to help it farm faster in pvm.
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Well the reaction time and click accurency you need are proportionnal to those of the player you are playing against. In that aspect D2 is just as demanding as any FPS. If your opponent is a good at aiming fast and well and has insane reaction time, you will just get spanked as hard as a counter strike random player against a pro (well not accounting for specific match up advantage, obviously, but you get what i mean)
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Ohh the casual D2R noobs telling D2/D2R veterans that pvp is easy and useless - daily stuff.
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True but the thing you are ommiting is that the average skill of a good FPS players is much higher than the average skill of a D2 player.
You recently shopped for a higher refresh and low ms monitor to pvp in Diablo?
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people farm for years to get a helmet that would knock one frame off of their cast rate in d2, its a pretty serious game for some people
Even if i admited you were right about that, how is that relevant to the discussion, once again ? We werent talking about how good are the players from different game and comparing them, we were talking about if the game was skill expressive and if things like reaction time or aim accuracy are important in it ?
And some items in pvp would sell for hundred, if not thousand of $ just for info
I’m not denying that.
People farm for years to get their skillers as well.
A huge part of D2’s allure is that while it’s not really challenging per se, it is an excellent character building game. You start the game, go through it until Hell Baal (which, untwinked and depending on the build is actually the hardest thing to do for PVM) and you start gearing your character.
But here is the thing - your gear doesn’t necessarily correspond to your skill level and the outcome hardly depends on having all of those chase items. On some of them, sure. On all of them? I don’t believe it. There is simply too much of a variance and unbalance between the classes and skills themselves (dealing a range of damage) that something like +1 or +2 to skills more on a Javelin or Bow makes a realistic difference.
People chase those items because it’s fun. Because this is the game - chasing items and building your character. You can be more serious or less serious about building your character, you can build your character for PVM or PVP but after a certain point it’s building for building’s sake.
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“Stop listening to 90% of the playerbase” yeah ok bud lmao.
PvM is the vast majority of the game. PvP is a niche community. Deal.
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We are having this discussion because I pointed out that it’s not good when hardcore pvpers like some in this thread refer to people who PVM as noobs (look several posts above) when in reality their claim to badassery is that they engage in an activity that has much lower skill ceiling than they probably realise.
Yes, you need to be somewhat good and definitely better than the other guy to win in D2 pvp.
But before starting to inflate yourself as the chief badass because of PVP in a game like D2, people need to realise that there is a whole category of players who wouldn’t consider them as playing the same sport, much less in similar league.
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Of course there is no point into insulting PvM players. But the reverse is true. We cant do a single post about PvP balance, even concerning change that are ONLY PvP related, like hit recovery mechanic, with out some idiot coming to tell us D2 is a PvM game and he knows how so much better than us how D2 is crap and unskilled in PvP, etc etc
skill is definitely part of it. some players are incredible at grabbing a namelock and completing many actions at frame perfect timing.