The REAL problem with Hustle for Bowzons

General Discussion
21

Hustle wep on swap is great for bowazons now that use gmb faith since strafe will proc bos in no time.

Also helpful for summon necs for skelly attack rating.

Somewhat ok for melee but tossed as soon as oath is found. The ko rune doesnt help it since the reliable way to get that is hell countess.

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22

Hustle is honestly not a bad option either way. I don’t agree with the comment that this runeword wasn’t designed for bows/crossbows - because that’s one of the use cases where this runeword excels in - but…

I don’t agree that we need to compare Harmony and Hustle like apples for apples and therefore the problem that is raised here is not really a glaring factor. A few things between the two (some of which you have mentioned):

  • Hustle is available across many more weapon types - missile weapons, melee weapons, 1 handed weapons, merc weapons
  • Hustle and Harmony have different socket requirements, so your choice of runeword may depend on what bases you come across in your playthrough. It’s also worth mentioning that 4 socket bases for bows such as ones that you’d use for Harmony are in higher demand than 3 socket bases due to 4 Socket bows also being bases for Faith, Ice, Phoenix, Brand, Wrath
  • Hustle excels in slower but harder hitting weapon bases (Grand Matron Bow, which requires just 20% IAS from outside of the weapon to reach the 7fpa attack speed) where as Harmony excels in faster weapon bases (Matriarchal bow)
  • Hustle and Harmony have some different applications from each other - Hustle can be used on a summon necro or his merc, Harmony for fighting physical immunes, use of revives

The suggestion to change Hustle to use a Sol instead of Ko will only make sense if the runeword is also nerfed. The Honor runeword would not be that much cheaper in rune requirements and will easily get outshined by Hustle.

23

Except insight already exists, can be used in bows, and vastly outperforms honor and is easier to find a base for than 5os (which is why nobody uses honor).

So that ship has sailed and that argument is weak.

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24

On that topic, I wouldn’t mind seeing a small buff to Honor being a 5 socket runeword, but Hustle isn’t just for 2 hander weapons though and is accessible to a wider range of 1 handed bases being only a 3 rune recipe.

25

I mean hustle is dogwater for one handed (melee) so not sure what difference that would make.

The entire thing needs another redesign to be useful for melee. Or rather, the Ko to Sol would actually make it usable for melee.

26

I blame Onadroig for taking this from not only bowzons but also all melee builds that would have loved to have the pre buff. :stuck_out_tongue:

27

I have that much influence over Blizzard, do I? You give me too much credit :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

28

kuko still does aoe though so its better for non bosses

need weapon swap hotkey for merc

29

updated

they could delete Barb from the game and noone would even notice, except “where is BOb1tch?”.

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30

More options to play

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31

Good recommandation but good luck with it…

32

The funny thing is hustle is still an endgame prebuff item for bowzons so the nerf only screwed over melee while hustle is still a must have item for bowzons which is what bowa wanted in the first place.

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33

Interesting, but totally wrong take. You should watch my video where I said exactly the opposite.

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34

Yes I’m making the assumption that you speak out of both sides of your mouth, otherwise you’d agree this hustle change is still bad as it still encourages prebuffing at the endgame for zons.

You can still use lvl 1 bos to hit max frames on windforce. Nothing has changed other than this hustle has no endgame relevance to melee.

35

Great. Go point out where I ever said BoS should be kept on Hustle.

Jesus Christ you’re so bitter :man_facepalming:

36

Oh my apologies. I thought you said this was a great sensible change?

So if this change is “great” but all that’s changed is the weapon lost its endgame viability for melee builds, but is also still going to be used by bowzons as a prebuff endgame, then how I am I supposed to interpret that?

You in your ptr assessment post even acknowledged that these new runewords were melee-focused. So the “sensible change” change was to nerf the runeword for melee?

37

It is because it changes the runeword to be inline with its stated purpose: An early mobility option that doesn’t break the end-game meta.

Ko rune. That should hint at whether this runeword was designed to be an end game weapon in the first place.

Correct. Introducing a Level 9 BoS proc on a runeword that only requires a Ko rune was not a sensible change, so scaling it back to a level 1 BoS is a sensible change.

And while I agree that balance changes are still in order, patch 2.6 however is still a net buff for melee because casters got nothing.

38

mobility purpose: 5% ctc 1lvl BoS LOL

Even if they make cheap wepon with +20 to BoS 20lvl Fana +500dmg ITD meta would be still the same: TeleBlizz HDin and Java/SumCe for Cows.

Without melee spash caster will always be 100 miles ahead from melee.

The point is to make melee viable throught Hell.

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39

You get a better mobility buff from harmony now with that KO rune. It’s also a better bow for bowzons as well.

Actually casters won big this patch because everything was made better for their mercenaries rather than melee. The hustle change is a straight nerf only to melee builds while casters like summon necro see more viability out of the lvl 1 fanaticism than a melee will because melee needs crushing blow on their active weapon set in the midgame. And the aura is so small that half the time it wont even be active on even melee if they put it on a merc.

This runeword still has paltry ED, no deadly strike, no crushing blow, no open wounds. No melee is going to keep this on their active slot besides maybe frenzy barbs who still rather just swap cast this runeword.

And no a KO rune is not an “early game mobility option” when harmony (which also costs a ko) now provides a better movement speed buff than the lvl 1 BoS does now. Early game would change the KO to Sol for melee.

The only good, ONLY, good thing for melee was hearth now having CBF.

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40

Theres nothing early about hustle, unless you consider act 1 hell to be early. Good luck finding ko before then, nightmare countess has a 1 in 3800 drop for it. Only a 1 in 5 for amn rune and a 1 in 7 for sol.

I suppose you could find 9 io runes from nightmare countess and cube them up (1 in 21 chance). Sounds like fun. Youd do enough runs to have a hundred spirit sets.

By the time you hit act 1 hell you can somewhat reliably make (through countess runs)

Obedience
Unbending will
Lawbringer
Passion
Crescent moon
Insight in elite base
Oath after a lot of countess runs and lucky enough to find a desirable eth base.

A good example of a spirit sword analogue would be a rework of Black

Black rework
Amn shael eth
3 socket melee weapons
+200% Enhanced Damage
35% increased speed
40% Chance Of Crushing Blow
+200 To Attack Rating
-25% target defense
7% life leech
Magic Damage Reduced By 2
Level 4 Corpse Explosion (12 Charges)

All I did was add 80 ED and replaced the runes that suck with ones that dont.

With that change it goes from smiter fodder (knockback, 120 ed, cold damage lol but you get 40 cb) to something a melee build would use from nightmare to early hell.

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