I play for efficiency and trading. I don’t just arbitrarily roll builds and classes to press new buttons. People enjoy games differently, and giving a meta reason to roll a new class was a great dynamic of D2 prior to sunders.
There are plenty of perfectly efficient ways to play that aren’t “cold sorc.” And frankly it isn’t really all that OP anymore since cold mastery was nerfed.
Again: This fixed the game for the vast majority of players. People like you who play for perfection (and probably forum gold) are a minority.
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Actually, I think jsp is the only reason D2 survived this long. And the majority of the active players by far. It can be used ethically if you don’t spend more FG than you’ve made in a ladder.
But besides that point, I don’t think you understand what I’m talking about, based on your response.
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I fully understand what you’re talking about, I just don’t agree with it. You’re wrong on all counts, about JSP keeping the game alive (the game never needed it to survive and the fact that I didn’t know anyone back in the day interacting with it disagrees with your notion). This isn’t about ethics, I’m not criticizing you for making “money,” but you grossly overestimate the number of people who participate in this.
You don’t need to stick to one class or build to farm efficiently. There are plenty of perfectly usable options available, and you’ll find you will enjoy the game a lot more if you explore those options rather than lock yourself into a build because you think it’s optimized.
Frankly, there are a LOT of better games for perfectionists to optimize if that’s your only goal.
Not if you kill everything from afar or quick enough before it even reaches you.
Also, many monsters do not attack with the element they are immune to, so lowered resistance is not a big deal.
Nobody does it. Everyone uses Sunders to steamrolls everything in “split MF” games.
This! I remember having multiple characters in LoD, each specializing with farming different areas. Now once I have the Sunder I feel I have no reason to start another character from scratch.
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Not if you kill everything from afar or quick enough before it even reaches you.
Also, many monsters do not attack with the element they are immune to, so lowered resistance is not a big deal.
So? as far as i see it, those are legit gameplay tactics (ranged attack to avoid risk), and the fact that immunes enemies do not attack with their own immunities doesn´t makes you immune to the enemies wich indeed do attack with the sundered element. Even if its a non-perfect solution, beint totally unable to kill certain enemies with certain builds was plain worse, rendering many builds options as terribly annoying.
Everyone uses Sunders to steamrolls everything in “split MF” games.
Thats also a legit way of playing, as far as im concerned. They are still more vulnerable to the element they are sundering anyway, and again: better to steamroll than to render full builds absolutelñy useless against certain enemies.
[quote=“Bodach-1471, post:39, topic:163863”]
Sunders should be removed. My cold sorc steamrolls all content now. Whereas before, I had a reason to roll a zon too. I couldn’t farm hell countess without doing so, etc. It made seasons last longer, and increased the demand on items in general.
[/quote]
This! I remember having multiple characters in LoD, each specializing with farming different areas. Now once I have the Sunder I feel I have no reason to start another character from scratch.
Really? Some people mean re-rolling the game (quit and enter again) in the hopes immunes got removed from the area was a good mechanic? not annoying at all? having to quit the game and creating a new to avoid unkillable enemiese is a TERRIBLE design flaw. Sunders may be not perfect, but are much better than having to do such a workaround.
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FTFY.
Before Sunders, you had a choice: either make a single element build, specializing in nuking non-immune monsters (and entire areas not containing such monsters), but struggling against immunities, or taking a more balanced approach and making a hybrid build, such as “meteorb” sorc.
Right, there were some offending build being able to farm everywhere (hammerdin, light sorc/zon/zin with Infi), but making every build capable of doing so, and buffing the previously meta build (they can use Sunders as well), was nothing more but a power creep.
Says who? Even without Sunder you could beat the content by using a hybrid build or even steamroll content - by co-operating with other players. Now there is no reason to play together, besides better drops (that’s why so many players demand /players 8 online). Sunders killed the multiplayer aspect of the game.
Again, the issue is with overspecialization and the ability to exploit the game mechanics by re-rolling the games. It was just easier than playing another build, and players will always choose the easiest solution.
It’s like saying that you have to create mules and get them rushed to hell HF for runes, because you cannot farm hell yet. No, you don’t have to, but you still would, if that was easier than farming gear in NM first.
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I disagree with the idea of Sunder providing more options, idea always coming up.
When it comes to choosing a car, a Ferrari for 1000$ does not provide more options, it kills all competition and make it the new meta.
Sunder would be an option if when worn, the character can no longer deal damage to the other elements for example and take 300% damage (or any other very punishing tweak). I call this challenge, a situational option to unlock a situation, and this one only.
Adding chains to your dry tires is an option for the snow. Because it’s not ideal and you remove the chains when the road is dry. It comes with drawback of time and convenience, it’s not just tired that are fully capable with any weather.
Immunities are not a “wall”. The game is made with options to precisely be able to kill any monster, by using other part of your skill tree, using a mercenary, and looking for players and encouraging developing bounds with friends.
Immunities and monster types create this diversity of zones, whereas Applying a sunder charm make every zone look the same.
I totally agree with Bodach. Sunder charms harm character diversity and replayability.
Technically DizzyDwarf, Hammerdin meta has been nerfed just enough. Not the spell itself but the spell that gives the ability to kill magic immunes fast has been nerfed : Holy bolt (Tons less of damage, even though it can now pierce, and now synergies with Fist of Heaven). Which make the class less appealing including at throne.
Also, swirling hammers is not that efficient when it comes to mobility and killing spread units, away from Baalruns. I think this point has been well thought out by the D2R team without losing the identity of the class. I know it was not your point but I think it needed to be clarified.
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Exactly this! 202020
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You only have three respecs (unless you already have another character with an optimal Hell build to farm Tokens with) and the enablerespec option is still hidden from the average offline player, the mercenary requires its own grind, and the latter is not possible in offline.
immunities still are a problem
but Scharms fixed most of it
so we are only missing more ways to lower phys and mag res
after that, immunities shouldnt be touched ever again
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You have 3 respecs. Token farming. And an option that allows you to just get free respecs. You’re complaining that a mercenary takes work to make, and? All things do.
You’re looking for an excuse more than you’re willing to accept that you have plenty of solutions.
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There are solutions? Yes. There are good solutions? No, not the way they are now.
Like I said, Token farming is only possible if you already have another character that can farm them (so it’s not possible if it’s your first one) or if you can trade (so it’s not possible if you’re offline). Otherwise you only have 3 respecs, so you better not make a mistake…
And free respecs is hidden as a command line argument. How many players do you expect to know of it? We do, but most don’t. If it were something present in the Options screen, like the /players X command, this wouldn’t be a problem.
after a good 100h of a fresh start respecs arent really a problem
i whish we had an armory system like in d3, but instead of being free to use it would require a ToA change your gear, stats, skills and inventory
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People still defending bad game design 20 years later…
But they are good, you don’t need 3 repecs? I’m not even sure you need one tbh. There is never a scenario where you’re so hard stuck by immunities that you can’t drop back level up and dual spec while getting a merc up to par.
And any character can token farm. Not sure why you claim otherwise, but it is certainly possible.
And you shouldn’t even need the free respecs option to accomplish your goals.
It was a hack. They tried to deal with bots and failed. That’s what this game is: hacks on top of hacks.
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I actually see where you’re coming from here.
Take the necromancer. He’s not the fastest killer, and he can’t teleport, but he can darn near clear any area in the game, without sunders, at the sacrifice of speed.
After sunders? He’s lost that niche.
I’m not super against or for sunders, but I will admit it’s removed my main classes niche.
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I agree with the developers’ decision here. D2 was a product of a different era of gaming when year-long mindless grind was somewhat of a standard. Sure, there are games like that now, but it gets called out pretty quickly.
In D2, if you’re playing single-player for example, then you can get very hard stuck in places. These immunities make a swath of builds completely unviable. There is already a focus on only a select few builds as-is and this just narrows it even further.
For multiplayer, you can still get in trouble with immunities. You have to have players go into the game from the beginning knowing what they will encounter and how to best it by synergizing their builds. It’s an ugly system that demands players spend nearly as much time away from game, theory-crafting, as in the game, grinding.
I’d be completely alright with very high resistances. To a point where you might struggle dealing damage, but a powerful enough build should compensate. Straight up immunities are anathema.
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Nostalgia is strong factor in every D2 matter. I’m also scared of changes but at the same time see many issues with D2.
It’s not exciting to start with Blizzard Sorc each ladder, trading on third party websites, going caster build every class because melee is almost pointless, playing same acts 3 times as one character then farming same map over and over with almost non existing good drops, making mules etc.
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