players 8 is meant to be played with 8 players… no soloable by a caster at the same speed they could clear players 1.
some nerfs are needed
as well as some buffs on other skills. ( they finally made firewall decent before ruining it again for no reason… why)
the goal is to try to give everything generally equal footing, and not make a few thing the best for every situation.
its better to lower a few op things down to the levels of everything else than to raise everything else… else it just snowballs into d3 80,000% damage.
I’ve heard this same lame argument in dozens of other games, but the reality is they just nerf everything down to wet noodles until nothing is fun. This is PoE and LoL in a nutshell. F*** those games.
are you crazy? both of those games are so heavily powercrept. PoE is a walking simulator of screen explosion effects and league is one shot simulator. go watch some old poe or league videos and see how slow the game use to be.
anyone arguing for the game to be easier should go play a different game. diablo 3 and diablo 4 are more your style. some people want a challenging game. some people enjoy the grind. if you dont have the time nor the skill to play the game without needing something as cheap as mosaic to let you one shot entire screens with 0 risk to you, just play single player and hero edit in a character with a level 500 holy shock aura instead… functionally no difference.
brother, i think you’re confusing d2 and d3. d2 originally was challenging. and then the original devs power creeped the hell out of it. fortunately, it still has some challenge in it.
if you think d2 has never been challenging, go play the original game. i mean something like 1.03 or 1.06b. back before the expansion and gimmicky runewords made the game easier.
nobody is asking for this game to be dark souls level hard. but every player that loves d2 and hates d3 all hate it for the same reason. the gameplay is too simple and easy. theres no depth to any of it. this is one of the few arpgs that isnt powercreeped into 5 hours of traditional gameplay = facerolling the entire game. theres like 5+ arpgs that are. please don’t turn this into a clone of every other arpg in existence. just go play those instead.
I didn’t say anything about D3. Nice projection. But if you want to talk about that, D3 can always be more challenging than any build you can create. D2 cannot, so might want to rethink that line of reasoning, buddy.
I don’t really see that Mosaic is so different from just Hammerdins, Blizz sorcs, trapsins, bone necs, wind druids, etc. They are all capable of efficiently farming everything (especially thanks to sunder charms). All the crying and babyrage just seems petty and stupid to me, and the game is more fun now than it was before the introduction of these things. Difficulty is not the point of the game. You’re seriously playing the wrong game if you think otherwise.
the only difficulty in d3 is late game rifts which is just one shot or be one shot. not exactly thrilling gameplay. i personally wouldnt call that challenging
try playing it then. its vastly different. 4 mid runes and it trivializes the entire game. there is nothing she cant do with those 4 runes and otherwise vendored gear. no build competes with this in the slightest. she can do p512 chaos. hammerdin can barely manage p64 lol
your list of character builds is interesting, bone necros are considered one of the weakest builds in the game, and wind druid is average.
imagine how much more fun it could be if you werent able to ignore 90% of the game and you were forced to engage your brain a little bit. the only saving grace of mosaic is you wont have it until the endgame, so the build doesnt naturally progress through the game on steroids. the downside is the build otherwise sucks so nobody plays it first until they have mosaics lol
im quite confident the majority of people who like d2 would disagree with you. the endgame of d2 is not hard by any means, and once you have an endgame build the game is fairly easy. but to say the game isnt meant to be a challenge is silly and i cant fathom where you draw that idea from.
please don’t ruin a perfectly good game with your arcade-style balance philosophies.
The point where I agree with you is that it used to be challenging. Waaay back in the day, before LOD. However, the game has so many things in it now that trivialize large parts of it. On top of that, most of the challenge back then stemmed from it being fairly new and people hadn’t “solved” it yet. It’s been ages since it’s been challenging in the way you wish it was. The ability for someone to beat the game now is mostly just a function of their time invested and their trade aptitude. It’s not about skill. There’s very little theory crafting for builds. Teamwork isn’t required.
It’s you who has silly notions about what the game is in its current state. It’s not that I blame you for the nostalgia, because I assume from reading some of your other posts that you have probably been playing for decades like I have, but you don’t seem to accept the reality of the direction this game has gone.
If you want real challenge back in D2, you have to play classic (not D2R), and you have to heavily mod the game.
no no no, there’s a difference. you are the one with silly notions thinking “well, the game is easier than it use to be, so its okay to power creep it into infinity”. the game still has some challenge now. tehre are some cookie cutter builds that can get through the game without too much struggle. there is not a build in the game that doesnt have some wall to get over or something that they generally suck at. hammerdin was right on this line. the only thing that held him back was the awkwardness/close rangedness of blessed hammer, the maggot lair, and the magic immune baal wave. he can otherwise clear the entire game without much struggle. and people have thought he was op for a significantly huge % of the game’s life time. and now mosaic blows him completely out of the water. the game is still okay as it is now, but mosaic is just pushing this game into a game that takes 0 planning, 0 skill, and 0 interaction. if they had given the mosaic mechanic exactly as is from the item to MA sins level 1, the backlash wouldve been sooooooooooooooo much worse, because then she trivializes 100% of the game. this is why theres so much pushback on mosaic. mosaic is raising the power bar wayyyyy too far. hammerdin was already too far.
this is quite possibly the least respectable thing you could have thought to have said. the game is not finalized. it can go in any direction the playerbase asks for. to say infinite powercreep and arcade-style gameplay is the direction its already gone in is psychopathic at minimum. mosaic is the only build that falls into that right now, and those that enjoy the current (or previous) power level of the game are definitely going to push back against it. to imply its just the natural direction of the game is… there are no nice words for that ideology lol and just incase you weren’t aware, there are, without a doubt, significantly more people asking for a mosaic nerf than people asking to keep it as is.
You still believe the devs care about balance. I don’t see any evidence of it. The complaints to nerf things are stupid in principle, annoying in general, and serve no productive purpose. They also are the pathway to destroying otherwise fun games.
If you really think Mosaic trivializes the game, don’t use it. There’s nobody compelling you to, but these are just the new “hammerdin.” People always want to complain about whatever is at the top of the meta, but there will always be something there. Yours is a flawed philosophy because you created a carousel of nerfing everything that comes around until you just have a wrecked ride. It’s just bandwagon BS–as you say:
The herd will bleat, but just because an idea is “popular,” doesn’t mean it’s correct. I’ve witnessed this fallacy leading to extremely negative outcomes all too often.
they do, considering theyre making balance changes to the game that are soft and have already nerfed cold sorc after they put their foot down and said cold mastery was fine as it was.
lmao. such a pathetic answer. this isnt about mosaic by itself. its about power creep. you do know what that is right? if we could have some god-spoken way of knowing without a shadow of a doubt that no build will ever cross mosaic’s power, then the game would be okay. but we don’t know that.
you have quite literally lost your brain. how does wanting the newest, most overpowered build in the game to be nerfed mean nerfing everything in existence to the ground? there have been so many builds that got buffed and everyone loved it. cold sorc and mosaicsin are the only ones people haev pushed back on. quit being delusional.
sure. i could say the same thing. if the majority of people wanted sorceress to have infinite mana, i would think its bad. im sure youd be fine with it though, “just dont play sorceress”.
I see you missed the thousands of “nerf hammerdin” threads over the years, lol. People will always complain about whatever is at the top. This is no different. Call it “power creep,” or “OP,” or whatever you want. Doesn’t matter. Calling for nerfs destroys games–especially when it’s PvE. You actually stand to gain nothing by nerfing it outside of some malevolent satisfaction that others have an objectively worse game as a result.
quite literally the opposite. you can’t even name a game thats “been ruined” due to nerfs. both of the examples you gave earlier have been buffed beyond ridiculousness lol. i dont think you have any solid ground for your stance.
ok now i know you’re just trolling. good talk up to this point tho. crazy how d3 or poe wasnt enough for you
how is objective reasoning “no u”. those games have literally been buffed into oblivion. PoE use to be like d2 and now its worse than d3 in terms of eye rolling death machines of non-interaction. league is literally who can one shot the other first lmao. this is objective truth, and i gave you examples to go see for such truth, watch any video from league season 1 and compare it to now. same goes for poe. you ignore this because you know its true and you dont want to admit it. if you think those games are worse now, then you are literally a walking paradox, because if you think they got worse, its because they got powercrept too hard, and you’re actually in agreement with me lmao.
side note, what drugs do you take? i want to live in make-believe world too, sounds like it would be nice from time to time
You have such a simplistic and wrong take on those games that I think you’re being disingenuous on purpose. I played those games when they were very new and for years after until they got nerfed into the ground and stopped being fun. It would veer extremely deep into off-topic to get into the details of each game, so this isn’t the place for it, but anyone being honest about it could give you endless lists of fun builds that are no longer allowed to exist (in PoE) because of the rotating nerf bat mentality.
As for the rest of your ad hominem nonsense, I guess I shouldn’t expect better from an NPC just copying the popular opinions, eh?
rotating meta builds is a completely different idea from power creep, though rotating meta builds are an inevitability to shake up the meta of the game without power creeping the game. unfortunately both those games still powercrept the game. but we are talking about power creep, not rotating meta builds. d2 does not have rotating meta builds. please don’t pretend otherwise
my brother in christ, you can chunk off 75% of mosaic’s damage and still be able to clear p1 at the same speed. nobody is asking for it to be nerfed into uselessness. you keep equating nerfs = rendering the build unusable. funny that you talk about ad hominem. cold sorc was nerfed but its still the most popular sorc build. wow, crazy how that works. my suggestions i made in my long post keeps mosaicsin as the best build in the game. even after a ridiculous amount of nerfs. please use the thinking cap god gave you
keep moving the goalpost. you have done nothing to refute anything i say besides continuously moving the topic onto something else until you find something that you can latch onto. everything else has been out-of-touch reactions and simply factually incorrect statements or you trying to say one thing and meaning something else or just entirely misinterpreting what i am saying. idk how you can call me being disingenuous when the only true thing you’ve said so far is that league and poe have rotating meta builds which has nothing to do with the conversation lol