Agreed and updated OP with your recommendation.
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I have this mission⌠about stun ⌠pliz update the OP yo cast off the godsamit invisiblility spell onnthat useless thing .
Thatâs not the point of Vengeance. It doesnât need to apply CB and DS any more than Smite needs to apply elemental damage. Vengeance needs splash or cone damage and to lean further into being an elemental attack.
Physical damage reduction is the strongest defensive stat in the game, and itâs very easy to have an overwhelming effect by planting chunks of it as passives onto skills.
As Increased Stamina is the worst skill in the game and Bone Break Sunder Charm is more of a liability with 10-30% more physical damage, this change seems justified to me and helps the barb mitigate the additional damage and allows the same advantage as elemental casters.
Respectfully disagree. Itâs a convoluted design that physical damage can crit, but elemental damage canât on Vengeance. Also proposing the same treatment for Impale (arbitrary single-target skill is unable to crit).
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Itâs not convoluted at all. Itâs consistent with how added elemental damage works in the rest of the game. Itâs affected by resistances and boosted by negative resistance, but it doesnât apply CB or DS. Vengeance itself is still striking with a physical attack, that physical attack can still apply CB and DS. If using a significantly strong weapon, like a Grief, both of these effects stay relevant in a vengeance build while it also applies a lot of elemental damage.
Sadly with metamorph bears will only ever be good for shockwave spam.
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Have you ever tried vengeance with an edeath cleaver? Itâs decent.
Iâm sure that it is. Thatâs why Iâm arguing that Vengeance doesnât need the elemental damage to be affected by DS or CB. Thereâs still a physical component to the attack that applies both of these effects. I think that the elemental portion should be an AoE of some sort, be it splash damage or a small cone.
Agreed, which is why the devs really need to buff Shockwave after that last patchâŚ
- Shockwave - increase Maul synergy from +10% to +15% per level and physical damage now benefits from Might, Fanaticism, etc.
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The âDamage +â stat on Grief applies after the Elemental calculation takes place, so it doesnât work.
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Are you telling me that CB doesnât happen when using Vengeance? I know that DS is limited to the physical portion of the strike, whatever amount that happens to be, but CB will still take place, which is far and away more relevant on the Vengeance build than doubling only the physical portion of the strike. Is it annoying and unintuitive that Grief specifically has lower DS damage? Sure.
grief doesnt work with vengeance.
CB isnt that great on vengeance either due to super slow attack speed.
DS only applies on physical part.
Enhanced damge from non weapon items doesnt work with vengeance.
so many limitations on an already below average skill. Either fix these or
Some Options, Nothing too OP :
- Give it IAS
OR - Make Attack uninterruptable
OR - Allow it to reach 6fpa
Too many points need to be invested in vengeance to make suck less. It still sucks after maxed out.
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Agreed, Vengeance needs to suck less. I like the change of allowing it to reach 6fpa.
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Right, thatâs how I thought it worked. The original suggestion is that the elemental damage should crit, and that doesnât make any sense. The point of Vengeance isnât that DS should be terribly effective; as for CB, itâs a bonus regardless of anything else. You will be striking with Vengeance either way, all the better if CB is applied during bosses.
Melee in general needs an IAS boost. Builds are useless without Phaseblades, Fanat, or BoS. Itâs bad, itâs incredibly bad, but not a Vengeance specific problem. All this skill needs is splash/cone damage, and uninterruptable would be nice. I would say separate the elemental damage off of the melee swing so that it cannot miss.
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How about thisâŚ
- Vengeance - now is uninterruptable, increase max attack FPS to 6, and remove Salvation synergy and roll bonus into main skill (reduce amount of synergies required to max skill. Currently requires a massive 100 skill point investment)
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I will say that if Vengeance has AoE to it, the 6 fps breakpoint isnât as necessary.
1 yard radius explotion on hit . Thats all vengeance needs (and CB working on the Phisical part) .
That way vengeance becomes the Niche aOE melee build for pallys.
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As the pally has so many dominant builds, I would be hestiant to give Vengeance an AoE component as the barb could probably use AoE on a particular build even more.
Just my 2 cents.
Am a barb but all melee need love . Pallys are melee too.
Yes the barb proposed cleave (and stun deletion from existance) should Also go.
Vengeance exploding on hit seems natural , i wouldnt give it IAs bcuz it would.be aOE . (Same for cleave . ) A pally could use fana on himself instead of conviction to boost his IAs While merc uses conviction ⌠or vice versa , he could use conviction And merc fanaâŚ
It just makes so much sense for it to xplode on contact.
All melee needs Niche aOE
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Pally really only has hammers as a dominant build. Zealers are meh, and auradins are runeword builds more than paladin builds. Smiter is less of a build and more of a 1 point wonder for boss killing on any paladin build. All the melee classes need more build options.
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